Hi
All Judoka in Japan I have one or two questions that you may be able to help me with.

What is the level of interest in newaza only contests there?

Looking for info on newaza I find newaza world, a Japanese site but the pictures there show competition looks as is bjj with bjj gi etc.

Bjj has exploded there also it seems but being that you are the home of kosen judo why are you not bringing the contest back under this banner?and promoting japanese newaza?

Is it the scoring in Bjj that you like or is it that there is no kosen contest anywhere?

I am just a bit baffled as i would like to make the trip to Japan to practice newaza and hopefully compete while there in a Kosen /Judo/newaza event

From the information that I have gathered, all of the Universities in Japan now train and play under Kodokan Judo rules. Apparently Kosen Judo rules are no longer used in inter-school tournaments.

Where is your information from and are the contests newaza only?

thanks

I got that information in this forum from a very reliable source.
All universities now compete using Kodokan Judo rules and no longer adhere to Kosen Judo rules.
That is not to say that other clubs or intitutions have done away with Kosen rules altogether, I'm sure that if one looks hard enough you can find them.

We had a Kosen player from Japan practice with us for about a year, while he was on exchange. WHat he told me is that there are still Universities that practice Kosen, (I can't recall his UNi,,) amoungst themselves, for the most part they play by the Olympic rules. He said the remaining schools have a kosen rule tournament or two a year amoungst themselves but that is about it. He also said there are a few non-university dojo still up and going.

One thing that he was clear on, is there is only one type of judo, the rules vary between the two but no the techniques and methodology.

Aaron Fields

Yes thanks, thats why i am looking hard here also.

Of course there is only one type of Judo, one seeks the kosen schools because of the emphasis on newaza

Was the Kosen player you mention AF compareable to a Bjj er of a particular grade?

Would still like to here from "the horses mouth" so to speek, any one got some info would like to here it thanks

The Kosen guy that played at our club was a skilled player. I come from a ground-focused background, so he and I got along quite well and practiced a lot together. We had about the same amount of time on the mat and were comparable grades and skill. His ne-waza was well developed and I guess the easy answer to the above question, is that his ne-waza was comparable to a BJJ guys. But then I know Kodokan players that have ground games which are on par with BJJ guys too.

There is only so many ways the body twists and turns so; folks that practice a certain aspect of the sport are going to be more similar than different.

The big difference between BJJ and judo groundwork, in my experience, is based off the positional hierarchy and rule set of each sport. Not having pins worth anything in BJJ develops a different tactical aspect than found in judo. One is not better, and cross training is a great idea.

If what you are asking me is, “does the Kosen rule set of judo, create a BJJ player with throws,” the answer is no. It creates a judo player with a developed ground game. The kosen guy, like most judo players, favored the top position, though the bottom was well developed. There are pins in the kosen rule set, so the use of dojime was more apparent than the average Kodokan players, but was not as heavily used as in BJJ. In addition, they put a lot of focus on throws and takedowns, as Kosen judo is judo, just a slightly divergent rule set. What was more developed in the kosen guy, other than ne-waza, was the focus he put on transitions between standing and ground. He was very smooth, and every throw was followed up with a ground attack. Again, a by-product of the rule set. In addition, he committed more to sutemi, which again makes sense.

In the end, I fear that too many players look at the grappling sports as separate creatures. Instead, I tend to look at them as different sides of the same coin. Beg, borrow, or steal, just get better.

Aaron Fields
www.seattle-jujutsu.org

All the posts are not far from the truth. Kosen Judo is a thing gone by but it does not mean we don`t have newaza freaks in Japan. The top level of newaza, I think, is heavily influenced by Kosen techniques. Yes 7 universities e.g. Hokkaido, Tohoku, Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Kyushu and Kyoto do hold an annual tournament on the contest rules different from those of the Kodokan.

Most inter-collegiate tournaments use the IJF rules. At local/regional tournaments, all Kodokan-designated tournaments like All Japan Women`s Championship or All Japan Championship (which remains to be the most prestigeous), all High Dan tournaments, they use the Kodkan rules. For children under 15, they use also the Kodokan rules as they apply the Children`s rules.

Nagoya University Judo Club, one of the Kosen schools, is open for outsiders and do practise Kosen newaza. At those 7 universities, they seem to have a common dilemma. By the very nature of newaza, especially in Kosen, it takes "steps" to achieve the goal, be it pin or submission. The current IJF rules are truly disadvantageous to those students who are used to that type of newaza. Even among themselves, there seems to arise disparity in opinion, which I witnessed at one of the 7 universities I visited this year between the young students and the seniors (Senpai or almni of the club)

Despite that, I saw in Sep. at East Japan All Industrial Judo Team Tournament one club composed of 3 graduates of one of the 7 univ. won all 3 games with standard Sutemi/takedown and pin, which was beautiful.

Is Kosen Judo dead by now? I don`t think so. There are several Kosen videos on sale but they don`t (or cannot) really show clearly what is so good about Kosen newaza. If anyone should expect some fancy techniques, he`ll be disappointed. There is a newaza only club, practising every SAT afternoon for 3~4 hours which used to be guided by Hirata Sensei. The last time I was there I was under the impression that they are losing touch with Kosen techniques, even though theirs is superior to other average newaza.

Talking about the first-class newaza senseis in Japan, I do not hesitate to nominate Okuda Sensei at Kyushu University, Matsumura Sensei at the Kodokan, Kurimura Sensei in Kyoto followed by Okano, Kashiwazaki, Mototani. Mototani Sensei is unique in that he won the second place (after Masaki) at All Japan practically only with newaza.

This is a newaza situation in Japan, as far as I see it. Lastly it was Oda Sensei`s idea to hold a newaza only tournament but he was already too ill to realize it. Use your brain, use your legs just like your arms ... golden rules for Kosen newaza.

Sam is entirely correct in his post. I know since some of my own sensei are in that list ! Hirata is dead, Kôsaka Konosuke is dead, Kurimura is retired, and isn't Matsumura Shigeya officially retired too ? I very rarely see him at the Kôdôkan anymore. I don't personally know Mototani first hand, so I am not sure about him. Of course, Kashiwazaki and Okano are very much alive today, and Kashiwazaki is easily accessible at Katsu'ura.

thanks for the replys guys .

If anyone can add to this let us know

Thanks