Please name this technique, comments welcome Options

[Todd]

One of the things that is important in identifying a technique, is to understand what makes a certain technique a technique. We see this all the time; there are people who think that what makes hiza-guruma different from sasae-tsuri-komi-ashi, is that with the first you put your foot at/on/near the knee, and with the second at the ankle. In reality, that has nothing to do with the differences between the principles that guide either throw, and I can perfectly do hiza-guruma with my foot at uke's ankle, and sasae-tsuri-komi-ashi with my foot at/on/near his knee.

The same people often think that the difference between ashi-guruma and ô-guruma is that for the first you put your leg in front of uke's legs, and in ô-guruma you would just put it higher. That again, has nothing or at least very little to do with the difference between the two principles, although when you compare two single drawings of both technique, that is what it might look to the uninformed.

Similarly, my impression is that some people's knowledge about yama-arashi is based on a frozen picture or drawing they have seen. Consequently they think what makes it different, is that tori would grap uke's right lapel with both hands. That in effect has little to do with it. A harai-goshi performed with both hands on uke's right lapel, is a completely different from yama-arashi.

OooooooooooooooooooKaaaaaaaaaaaYeeeeeeeeeee!!! Until recently I had only seen a "drawing" of Yama Arashi", and have only just seen some videos of it. I can see that it is quite different from a Harai Goshi. As for difference between ashi and O, yes, there is definitely more of a difference than just putting your leg higher for O,not that I know what all the differences are. I've seen videos of Mifune do ashi guruma while still turned standing sideways to Uke's front, and sticking his leg out across his legs, and I've seen videos of Mifune doing O-guruma where he is really "wheeling" or "whirling" Uke over and around his upper, upper thigh or hip.
As for what you say about hiza guruma vs sasae, I'm going to have to think on that one. Yeah, I'm going to have to think on that one ,and really review each of those two.

[Todd]

Oh, c'mon guys, ashi-guruma, my rear The kid is 13 years old ! Ashi-guruma is not particularly a throw you see at that level, as it is a difficult throw which even very few adults can do. Where is the kuruma part ? There is none. From that body position, you cannot do ashi-guruma, which requires a very well controlled hara, which here is completely absent. That control of the hara is typically way above the skill level of a 13 year old, let alone to the left.

What is shown in the video clip classifies as a poor left-harai-goshi with poor kuzushi, poor control, poor kake, and poor debana. This is not to hurt the feelings of the individual, and it is a completely in line with normal expectations at the level of a 13-year old kid.

The only thing that is somewhat connected to hidari-ashi-guruma is the direction. A proper hidari-harai-goshi would normally throw to the right front. Hidari-ashi-guruma can be performed in that angle of direction but obviously requires the other elements of ashi-guruma to be present. Of the 10 adults who would demonstrate ashi-guruma even outside of competition, you can bet that rarely more than one will actually be doing ashi-guruma. It is a difficult throw, of which the mechanism is insufficiently understood by most judoka, and on top of that most judo instructors do not know how to properly teach it either. That is not to imply that they are incompetent, but that it is one of the most difficult throws to teach to somebody. Virtually the only people who are able to 'get' ashi-guruma, are those who have learnt to properly master tai-sabaki and body control.

Yokoyama, I did not mean to hurt your feelings. I congratulate you on your win, well done. Keep practicing hard. My comment here was not about you as a person, but more directed to the rest of the forum and their conclusions.

Are my knuckles the only ones that are sore, in here? WHACK!!! I know that I do not understand ashi guruma, have never even tried, and probably will never be able to do it. It is one of the throws in my "dead list", i.e. throws which I know I will never understand, beable to do, will ever even bother trying to do. That and probably O-Guruma. It just seems to me, if you have Harai Goshi, why do you need those 2? Those and the "big guy" throws, the big lift throws, cuz I have a bad disc in my lower back.
Of course, when you are a kid, i.e. very light in weight and defensive muscle strenght, a "poor harai goshi" can work out for you, to get an Ippon.

[Todd]

One of my former professors -a former Nobel prize winner Physics and who has sadly passed away- once reviewed a paper of some distinguished American colleagues, also professors in Physics. My professor left nothing whole of the paper. The authors had their fragile ego's destroyed and complained to the Editor and send in a rebuttal to the Editor and my Professor. Their rebuttal started with a sentence that commenced as follows: "We, the authors don't think that ...", to which my professor laconically wrote back: "The essence of your work is contained in the first five words of your letter".

Ouch!!! He must have been Samurai!!!! CUT.. CUT .. CUT.. SLICE..SLICE.. DICE..DICE...!!! CHOP, CHOP,CHOP, CHOP!!!! Well that is the essence of "peer review" and Phd level work. Garbage In - Garbage Out. You can get away with BS in Psychology or something, but not in Physics.

[JohnGabriel]

Todd you can combine your posts by clicking quote on who you want to quote...

As to your download of youtube question. Firstly you need FLV player. http://download.cnet.com/FLV-Player/3000-1...4-10467081.html
Then double click the embedded video in question to open up the youtube page. Copy the link address by highlighting it and pressing control + C, now paste it into the box here: http://download.cnet.com/FLV-Player/3000-1...4-10467081.html You will then get a download link. Next find the file and change its name to end in ".flv" , now open it with flv player.

However, this is fine if the material is not copyrighted. But much of the material on youtube is subject to copyright, you can excercise your own discretion as to whether you fall under a fair use exception. You may be liable for damages otherwise. Technically it is not legal to tape radio or tv either unless you fall under fair use. ON the other hand it is an interesting question whether it is a breach of copyright to simply view youtube videos.

[Yokoyama]

I found the real japanese 山嵐 Yamaarashi"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOy2eBGNu7Y

[llO0DQLE]

So, u didn't like my yama arashi thesis, eh?

which one is that? nah, im just curious to know what the Kodokan senseis' opinion were and from the last few recent posts by OP, it seems their consensus was yama arashi...and why they classified it as that...i dont have an opinion on the matter, im just a yellow belt...i just wanna hear some technical explanations from different sources...just for learning...

and can someone kindly explain to me why this doesn't qualify as an osoto gari? im not saying it is, that's what it looked like to me...what im asking is, what are the qualities of osoto gari that are not found in this throw that makes it unqualified to be an osoto gari...

[Yokoyama]

Thanks for the encouragement
eboutin
JohnGabriel
Milisim
RoswelllJudo
Todd
Mitesco
loudenvier
and many others thank you...
and thanks for the private messages too
and
also thanks for the discouragement..
have a good day..

This post has been edited by Yokoyama: Nov 8 2009, 04:16 AM