Help w/ quotation, Chinese? 漢文？ Options

[NBK]

Clueless here - an inscription on a book published in Japan last year on the development of judo. Other than that, I have no idea of the context and can't find it on the 'net.

Kaji-san, any ideas? This is as written - the original may have been in Chinese so that's why I can't find on the 'net.

Thanks!


為人盡而不雇己
為世謀而不思家


This post has been edited by NBK: Mar 18 2009, 12:58 PM

[Kaji]

Oh, I didn't see this topic until you PM'd me about it, NBK-san. I hope now is not too late for you.

The two phrases do seem Chinese. I have not seen or heard them before. If they were a common Chinese saying, they would probably show up in a Google search. [I've just asked my wife, whose Chinese is better than mine, and she said she had heard the second phrase before.]

Assuming the two phrases are indeed Chinese, here is my attempt at translating them:

為人盡 = do everything one can for others
不雇己 = not care for the self (I presume that this 雇 is meant to be a simplified equivalent of the character 顧. In the traditional, ie, not simplified, character set 雇 means to employ or hire.)
為世謀 = plan/scheme/plot for the world
不思家 = not think about home/family

Hence:

為人盡而不雇己 = Do everything one can for others and not (merely) care for oneself.
為世謀而不思家 = Think and act for the world without worrying (only) about one's own family.

I added the words in brackets to make the translated phrases sound more in line with what I think is the spirit of the Chinese phrases.

Simply put the two phrases are about altruism.

NBK-san, is this helpful?

[NBK]

More than helpful, perfect!

Thanks,

鑓

[Kaji]

More than helpful, perfect!

Thanks,

鑓

Glad to hear that. You're welcome, NBK-san!

While we're talking about translation, have you come across this Japanese book?

柳生新陰流を学ぶ 江戸武士の身体操作
赤羽根竜夫／著
ISBN: 978-4-7899-2107-7

You can find it at:
http://books.yahoo.co.jp/book_detail/AAR70248/

My ex-Korindo Aikido sensei and now taijiquan teacher would like my help to translate around 10 pages from that book into Chinese or English.

Do you know if there are any published translation available?

The text seems to be quite technical, in the fields of kenjutsu and possibly some human body mechanics, so getting help from just any Japanese translator might not be sufficient.

[Cichorei Kano]

Glad to hear that. You're welcome, NBK-san!

While we're talking about translation, have you come across this Japanese book?

柳生新陰流を学ぶ 江戸武士の身体操作
赤羽根竜夫／著
ISBN: 978-4-7899-2107-7

You can find it at:
http://books.yahoo.co.jp/book_detail/AAR70248/

My ex-Korindo Aikido sensei and now taijiquan teacher would like my help to translate around 10 pages from that book into Chinese or English.

Do you know if there are any published translation available?

The text seems to be quite technical, in the fields of kenjutsu and possibly some human body mechanics, so getting help from just any Japanese translator might not be sufficient.

Yagyū Shinkage-ryū iaijutsu is the other koryū school I studied in Japan (in addition to Tenjin shinyō-ryū). However, I have not kept active either. Yagyū Munenori plays a role in the origins of Kitō-ryū jūjutsu, as well as in the evolution of the concept bushidō.

I know the book and have it, but have no access to it. It is in one of the dozens of boxes that currently contain much of my library, and I have no idea in which box. There are a few people in the US, such as Meik Skoss who would have had a closer involvement with the school perhaps.

[NBK]

Glad to hear that. You're welcome, NBK-san!

While we're talking about translation, have you come across this Japanese book?

柳生新陰流を学ぶ 江戸武士の身体操作
赤羽根竜夫／著
ISBN: 978-4-7899-2107-7

You can find it at:
http://books.yahoo.co.jp/book_detail/AAR70248/

My ex-Korindo Aikido sensei and now taijiquan teacher would like my help to translate around 10 pages from that book into Chinese or English.

Do you know if there are any published translation available?

The text seems to be quite technical, in the fields of kenjutsu and possibly some human body mechanics, so getting help from just any Japanese translator might not be sufficient.

Kaji-san,

I know the book. It's recent. AFAIK there is not English translation.

I haven't bought it because IIRC it is almost exclusively the kenjutsu side of the art plus the part you're interested in. I occasionally practice the weapons and koryu jujutsu side of Yagyu Shingan ryu but if I practice too many sword styles I'll forget the three things I think I know The koryu jujutsu has some truly unique aspects, and there are few jujutsu styles that do.

Let me know the topic, which pages, I might be able to help, but no time soon. Have too many projects for the next several months. And, frankly, translating 'ki' hurts my brain....

光輪洞合気道？　Please ask if your sensei knew 平井稔 Hirai Minoru, the founder. I'm doing some research about him.

[Kaji]

光輪洞合気道？　Please ask if your sensei knew 平井稔 Hirai Minoru, the founder. I'm doing some research about him.

Yes, it is indeed 光輪洞合気道. My sensei's sensei is 庄野晴己 Shono Seiki. Shono-sensei is a student of Hirai Minoru.

What do you want to find out about him?

Not sure if you have come across this - in my dojo's old webpage, there is a Chinese translation of an article, originally in Japanese, about Hirai-sensei:
http://hk.geocities.com/hkaikidoclub/HiraiArticle_c_1.htm
According to that webpage, the article is sourced from 日本武道武術月刊「秘伝」Issue April 2001, so that might help your research. You might also be interested in reading about the supposed assassination of the then prime minister of Japan, 東條英機 Hideki Tōjō.

I know the book. It's recent. AFAIK there is not English translation. I haven't bought it because IIRC it is almost exclusively the kenjutsu side of the art plus the part you're interested in. I occasionally practice the weapons and koryu jujutsu side of Yagyu Shingan ryu but if I practice too many sword styles I'll forget the three things I think I know The koryu jujutsu has some truly unique aspects, and there are few jujutsu styles that do. Let me know the topic, which pages, I might be able to help, but no time soon. Have too many projects for the next several months. And, frankly, translating 'ki' hurts my brain....

It was Shono-sensei, in his last visit to Hong Kong, who passed the book to my sensei for his reading and reference. The section that my sensei and I want translated is from Chapter 3: 三、厳周伝身体操作の考察, from page 42 to 52. If you are interested in that section, yes, it would be excellent if you could spare the time to translate it. If you cannot, I'd understand. Meanwhile, I'll try my best to help my wife finish her masters assignment, so that she could try the best of her Japanese to see if she can do anything to those pages, which she doubts because she has no experience with martial arts.

One question, if I scan those pages and provide them online for others to translate for me, would that be an infringement of copyright?

The three things that you said you know, or think you know - are they by chance the 三學?

Yes, 氣 is definitely not easy to translate. Only recently when I have a better understanding of the classical texts in taijiquan do I have a better idea to translate the character, but of course only in the context of taijiquan.

Yagyū Shinkage-ryū iaijutsu is the other koryū school I studied in Japan (in addition to Tenjin shinyō-ryū). However, I have not kept active either. Yagyū Munenori plays a role in the origins of Kitō-ryū jūjutsu, as well as in the evolution of the concept bushidō.I know the book and have it, but have no access to it. It is in one of the dozens of boxes that currently contain much of my library, and I have no idea in which box. There are a few people in the US, such as Meik Skoss who would have had a closer involvement with the school perhaps.

Thanks for the information! The linkage with Kitō-ryū jūjutsu is also interesting.

This post has been edited by Kaji: Mar 24 2009, 05:11 PM

[NBK]

Kaji-san,

I'll check, I'm traveling now.

FYI I said 'knew Hirai Minoru sensei' for a reason - he died several years ago, and Korindo Aikido imploded, there was a serious split among the main players. Unless your sensei is referring to his grandson.

Thanks for the info on the article, maybe I'll start w/ that.

Cheers,

鑓

[Kaji]

Kaji-san,

I'll check, I'm traveling now.

FYI I said 'knew Hirai Minoru sensei' for a reason - he died several years ago, and Korindo Aikido imploded, there was a serious split among the main players. Unless your sensei is referring to his grandson.

Thanks for the info on the article, maybe I'll start w/ that.

Cheers,

鑓

I don't think my sensei knows Hirai-sensei personally. However, I am certain that Shono Seiki-sensei, being a direct pupil, knew Hirai-sensei. I can get in touch with Shono-sensei through my sensei. If you have only a few questions I can pass them to him. If you need more, we could perhaps try to arrange you to meet Shono-sensei in person. He lives and teaches in a town near Tokyo.

From what I have heard, Shono-sensei himself seems to have been somehow caught in the "implosion" that you mentioned. He received criticisms that, accordingly to what my sensei told me, were not backed up by facts.

Also, feel free to PM me on this.