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Yet another "critique my performance" thread! Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   luckycharms 

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:47 PM

These are my 4 matches from this past weekend. My category was -90/-100 kg combined in the novice division. I am the one wearing the blue gi in all my matches.

Results in order:

Lost (osaekomi)

Won (throw)

Won (throw)

Lost (kensetsu waza)


This guy was pretty big/strong and he gave me a hard time. He bullied me on the ground until he got me in osaekomi lol. During grip-fighting I was cut under the chin from his nail so the ref called matte and the medic came to treat it (hence the 2 parts).

Part1


Part 2





I liked my performance here and for once I'm not the short guy however I was successful with my "drop seoi nage".






Here I am rematching the guy I fought first. I knew he liked the high collar grip/shoulder grip so I adjusted accordingly. He still managed to bully me in newaza but I was able to scramble until the ref saved me. I am unclear of the name of the throw I scored ippon with (I could use help with that) but it's a throw that I've been having success with in both randori and shiai.






I'm a little disappointed with myself in this match. I felt like I should have played it a little safer as I know the guy I'm competing against likes to start off explosive and counter guys early. Also I was not expecting him to go for the armlock so I stupidly left my arm vulnerable.





Overall I'm satisfied with my performance. I know now that I have lots stuff to work on in the dojo but most importantly I had lots of fun.
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#2 User is offline   loudenvier 

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:15 PM

The throw for ippon you've uses is ko uchi makikomi... If you like this throw, then develop it because it is very nice and surprising (to uke). See how Koga does it:



I like your posture. You look like a Judoka, while most of the other guys looked like bullies or BJJers (I hate BJJers a lot!!! :lol:).

I think you lack a little (not too much) confidence in your seoi! You seems to stop instead of committing yourself fully when you do your entry.

Other than that I think you only need more practice. Having fun is the most important thing at all!
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#3 User is offline   luckycharms 

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:29 PM

View Postloudenvier, on 17 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

The throw for ippon you've uses is ko uchi makikomi... If you like this throw, then develop it because it is very nice and surprising (to uke). See how Koga does it:



I like your posture. You look like a Judoka, while most of the other guys looked like bullies or BJJers (I hate BJJers a lot!!! :lol:).

I think you lack a little (not too much) confidence in your seoi! You seems to stop instead of committing yourself fully when you do your entry.

Other than that I think you only need more practice. Having fun is the most important thing at all!


Thanks I noticed that about myself too. All these guys I fought were stiff-arming/hunched over and using all their strength. Figured I could have stalled out and the ref would have given my opponents penalties but to me that's not Judo.

And yes that's exactly what my sensei tells me is that I don't completely commit myself to my throws even in randori. I don't know it's probably just a mental thing that I could address during throwing drills/randori.

EDIT: Would this be a common throw for seoi nage type players since it could be used to trick your opponent into thinking you're going for seoi while you take them down with ko-ouchi makikomi? It just seems to "click".

This post has been edited by luckycharms: 17 April 2012 - 10:34 PM

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#4 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:32 AM

View Postloudenvier, on 18 April 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

The throw for ippon you've uses is ko uchi makikomi... If you like this throw, then develop it because it is very nice and surprising (to uke). See how Koga does it:

I like your posture. You look like a Judoka, while most of the other guys looked like bullies or BJJers (I hate BJJers a lot!!! :lol:).

I think you lack a little (not too much) confidence in your seoi! You seems to stop instead of committing yourself fully when you do your entry.

Other than that I think you only need more practice. Having fun is the most important thing at all!


Loudenvier,

Sorry I have to ruin the fun. Please, try to avoid using the term 'ko-uchi-makikomi'. Though the term is used, it is a misnomer, because what is known as 'ko-uchi-makikomi' is not a makikomi action. The correct term for that technique is ko-uchi-gari. It does not change if both hands and foot are attached to uke's leg with the initial attention to continue all the way to the ground.

Now, what is shown in this clip, even when using the that 'wrong' terminology, is NOT ko-uchi-makikomi. Why not ? First, if one accepts ko-uchi-makikomi a existing terminology, even then this is not ko-uchi-makikomi. The apparent error made here is that it seems to be assumed that every ko-uchi-gari where tori follows to the tatami would be ko-uchi-makikomi. That is not true and has never been true. In this case, tori's 'tsurite-arm' still maintains control of uke's arm, not of his leg. Thus this is simply ko-uchi-gari continued.

The conclusion is really simple. Since ko-uchi-makikomi is improper terminology, this technique CAN only be ko-uchi-gari (which is what it was in the first place). <_<

_________
P.S.: Yes, I noticed the title of the Koga clip, and no, I am not suggesting that Koga does not know what he is talking about.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 18 April 2012 - 01:32 AM

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#5 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:37 AM

View Postluckycharms, on 18 April 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Thanks I noticed that about myself too. All these guys I fought were stiff-arming/hunched over and using all their strength. Figured I could have stalled out and the ref would have given my opponents penalties but to me that's not Judo.

And yes that's exactly what my sensei tells me is that I don't completely commit myself to my throws even in randori. I don't know it's probably just a mental thing that I could address during throwing drills/randori.

EDIT: Would this be a common throw for seoi nage type players since it could be used to trick your opponent into thinking you're going for seoi while you take them down with ko-ouchi makikomi? It just seems to "click".


It's ko-uchi-gari, not ko-uchi-makikomi, the latter which is poor and improper terminology, and in this case also is wrong.

Yes, it is a existing renraku-waza for seoi-nage to be followed up by ko-uchi-gari. Precisely this combination was made very famous by the legendary Okano Isao. I like to refer to this particular technique of him and performed by him as "the tank" ... <_<

Okano preferred to use it out of morote-seoi-nage and with a less common kumi-kata maintaining a bent arm tsurite, elbow before uke's chest. -_-
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
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#6 User is offline   loudenvier 

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostCichorei Kano, on 17 April 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Loudenvier,

Sorry I have to ruin the fun. Please, try to avoid using the term 'ko-uchi-makikomi'. Though the term is used, it is a misnomer, because what is known as 'ko-uchi-makikomi' is not a makikomi action. The correct term for that technique is ko-uchi-gari. It does not change if both hands and foot are attached to uke's leg with the initial attention to continue all the way to the ground.

Now, what is shown in this clip, even when using the that 'wrong' terminology, is NOT ko-uchi-makikomi. Why not ? First, if one accepts ko-uchi-makikomi a existing terminology, even then this is not ko-uchi-makikomi. The apparent error made here is that it seems to be assumed that every ko-uchi-gari where tori follows to the tatami would be ko-uchi-makikomi. That is not true and has never been true. In this case, tori's 'tsurite-arm' still maintains control of uke's arm, not of his leg. Thus this is simply ko-uchi-gari continued.

The conclusion is really simple. Since ko-uchi-makikomi is improper terminology, this technique CAN only be ko-uchi-gari (which is what it was in the first place). <_<

_________
P.S.: Yes, I noticed the title of the Koga clip, and no, I am not suggesting that Koga does not know what he is talking about.


The problem is that this "variation" is informally but broadly known as ko-uchi-makikomi. In Best Judo, if my memory don't fail me, Isao Inokuma calls it sutemi-kouchi (which, by the way, makes A LOT MORE SENSE to me... because it states it is a kouchi-gari where you sacrifice your position to throw... but certainly it is NOT an accepted name - people, maybe westerns, have the tendency to call anything that you fall together with uke as makikomi, failing to notice the real meaning of makikomi... but you know that much better than me!).

So, what did you want me to call it when asked by a green belt? This is kouchi-gari... Then he would search for it, and wouldn't find it.

I did also notice that his throw is different from Koga's, because he didn't performed any "makikomi" acting, just used ko-uchi-gari from a seoi-nage grip (like Okano's famous variation, albeit from ippon-seoi instead of morote...)

And you didn't ruin my fun. The real fun is in SHIAI! Exchanging knowledge! :lol:
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#7 User is offline   loudenvier 

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

View Postluckycharms, on 17 April 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Thanks I noticed that about myself too. All these guys I fought were stiff-arming/hunched over and using all their strength. Figured I could have stalled out and the ref would have given my opponents penalties but to me that's not Judo.

And yes that's exactly what my sensei tells me is that I don't completely commit myself to my throws even in randori. I don't know it's probably just a mental thing that I could address during throwing drills/randori.

EDIT: Would this be a common throw for seoi nage type players since it could be used to trick your opponent into thinking you're going for seoi while you take them down with ko-ouchi makikomi? It just seems to "click".


Take a look at the most incredible judoka of all time executing his own variation on ko-uchi-gari. It is sensei Isao Okano. The specific technique starts at 2:18 on the film. It is the same thing you did, but from a morote-seoi-nage position. It was also more reactive than yours (you did it almost directly not as a follow up). It must be noticed that Okano sensei NEVER used the first morote-seoi as a feint! He always tried to throw with full commitment (which does not mean losing balance, going to the ground to throw - drop seoi, etc.) and followed up with the ko-uchi-gari only when uke successfully resisted the seoi (there is footage of him scoring ippon against a HUGE guy on the All Japan Championships):


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#8 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:46 PM

View Postloudenvier, on 19 April 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

The problem is that this "variation" is informally but broadly known as ko-uchi-makikomi. In Best Judo, if my memory don't fail me, Isao Inokuma calls it sutemi-kouchi (which, by the way, makes A LOT MORE SENSE to me... because it states it is a kouchi-gari where you sacrifice your position to throw... but certainly it is NOT an accepted name - people, maybe westerns, have the tendency to call anything that you fall together with uke as makikomi, failing to notice the real meaning of makikomi... but you know that much better than me!).

So, what did you want me to call it when asked by a green belt? This is kouchi-gari... Then he would search for it, and wouldn't find it.

I did also notice that his throw is different from Koga's, because he didn't performed any "makikomi" acting, just used ko-uchi-gari from a seoi-nage grip (like Okano's famous variation, albeit from ippon-seoi instead of morote...)

And you didn't ruin my fun. The real fun is in SHIAI! Exchanging knowledge! :lol:


Loudenvier, THIS particular variation is NOT informally and broadly known as ko-uchi-makikomi ! In fact, this particular variation has NEVER been known as ko-uchi-makikomi.

Those who do, seem to have misunderstood the term as referring to ANY ko-uchi-gari where tori ends also up on the ground, but that is not true. 'Ko-uchi-makikomi' implied the 'intentional' sacrifice, not the continuation of ordinary ko-uchi-gari to the ground !

Not only do I WANT you to call it ko-uchi-gari (when asked by a green belt or anyone else), but you also SHOULD call it ko-uchi-gari, because that is what is and has always been.

although I don't have Inokuma's book handy, but as far as I can recall, what you refer to as "sutemi-ko-uchi-gari" is not the same technique as the one to which some people refer to as "ko-uchi-gari". Two different things.

Also, if I recall well, Daigo also elaborates on why ko-uchi-makikomi is bad terminology and should not be used.
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
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#9 User is offline   porl 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:20 AM

View Postloudenvier, on 19 April 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Take a look at the most incredible judoka of all time executing his own variation on ko-uchi-gari. It is sensei Isao Okano. The specific technique starts at 2:18 on the film. It is the same thing you did, but from a morote-seoi-nage position. It was also more reactive than yours (you did it almost directly not as a follow up). It must be noticed that Okano sensei NEVER used the first morote-seoi as a feint! He always tried to throw with full commitment (which does not mean losing balance, going to the ground to throw - drop seoi, etc.) and followed up with the ko-uchi-gari only when uke successfully resisted the seoi (there is footage of him scoring ippon against a HUGE guy on the All Japan Championships):




I have lost count of the number of times I have watched that video, and still cannot help but watch it through every time I see it posted. Absolutely astonishing. By far my favourite judoka of all time.
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#10 User is offline   Ben Reinhardt 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:35 AM

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This guy was pretty big/strong and he gave me a hard time. He bullied me on the ground until he got me in osaekomi lol. During grip-fighting I was cut under the chin from his nail so the ref called matte and the medic came to treat it (hence the 2 parts).


No, he didn't bully you. Instead of recovering to guard, you chose to lay on your stomach, and he exectuted (for a yellow belt) a decent turnover on you. Standing, you let him get the high collar grip on you, which amplified his size advantage.
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#11 User is offline   Ben Reinhardt 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:42 AM

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I liked my performance here and for once I'm not the short guy however I was successful with my "drop seoi nage".


Nice movement, action reaction and timing on that one. You also recovered to guard instead of laying on your stomach.

Ban that crappy makikomi from your judo lexicon, please.
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#12 User is offline   Ben Reinhardt 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:48 AM

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Here I am rematching the guy I fought first. I knew he liked the high collar grip/shoulder grip so I adjusted accordingly. He still managed to bully me in newaza but I was able to scramble until the ref saved me. I am unclear of the name of the throw I scored ippon with (I could use help with that) but it's a throw that I've been having success with in both randori and shiai.


Much better, although you still managed to get turned over from our stomach due to the crappy fall on your face attack. Your choice of Kouchi Gari variation was much better, nice timing and movement again. You might want to review and drill against that high collar grip a bit as well.
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#13 User is offline   Ben Reinhardt 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:54 AM

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I'm a little disappointed with myself in this match. I felt like I should have played it a little safer as I know the guy I'm competing against likes to start off explosive and counter guys early. Also I was not expecting him to go for the armlock so I stupidly left my arm vulnerable.


You didn't mention that he is a lefty, and that you apparently don't know how to approach a lefty. As a sankyu, you need to start working on that or you will pretty much get creamed by lefties. The ref missed scoring both throws he executed, the first perhaps a yuko, the second pretty much was ippon.

You have a great attitude keep up the good work. Posting videos of yourself is a brave thing to do. Just look at all of mine out there, LOL.
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#14 User is offline   Dutch 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:44 PM

Posture good! Ne waza Bad!

hehe, thats how I would summarize what I saw. Dont lay on your stomach and wait for the referee to safe you, it costs way too much energy and is not a winning strategy.
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#15 User is offline   BillyMac 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:34 PM

View Postloudenvier, on 18 April 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

Take a look at the most incredible judoka of all time executing his own variation on ko-uchi-gari. It is sensei Isao Okano. The specific technique starts at 2:18 on the film. It is the same thing you did, but from a morote-seoi-nage position. It was also more reactive than yours (you did it almost directly not as a follow up). It must be noticed that Okano sensei NEVER used the first morote-seoi as a feint! He always tried to throw with full commitment (which does not mean losing balance, going to the ground to throw - drop seoi, etc.) and followed up with the ko-uchi-gari only when uke successfully resisted the seoi (there is footage of him scoring ippon against a HUGE guy on the All Japan Championships):




I don't ever remember watching this one, but thank you, thank you

Here is why...

I cut mountain bike inner tubes for uchi komis and drill in my garage when the spirit moves me

Up until now, I thought I was the only one who has been ipponed by inner tubes

Seriously, the first time that happened I changed to the driveway where there is a texture on the concrete

Oops..I watched it again it looks like he followed through the throw and rolled into it before the camera caught up

Damn..I might still be the only person to get slammed by my own inner tubes

This post has been edited by BillyMac: 07 May 2012 - 05:37 PM

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