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BJA Ranking points Question!! Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Robert Medkwai 

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

Question 4,314 !!

following the southern area open, one of my judoka asked me why she hadn't earned ranking points even though she picked up the 3rd place bronze,
there were only 3 in her group and she failed to win a fight, but still thought id ask judoforum.com people wether she should of got ranking points, only breifly looked into it, obviously by the fact im asking this question i have no prior knoledge about how the system works but am interesting because i've got "40 points" aswell =o!,


(BJA senior ranking list)
re: http://www.britishju...30March2012.pdf
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#2 User is offline   Tafftaz 

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostRobert Medkwai, on 11 April 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Question 4,314 !!

following the southern area open, one of my judoka asked me why she hadn't earned ranking points even though she picked up the 3rd place bronze,
there were only 3 in her group and she failed to win a fight, but still thought id ask judoforum.com people wether she should of got ranking points, only breifly looked into it, obviously by the fact im asking this question i have no prior knoledge about how the system works but am interesting because i've got "40 points" aswell =o!,


(BJA senior ranking list)
re: http://www.britishju...30March2012.pdf


Was it a ranking event? Also to get any sort of points you have to win bouts. A bronze medal in a pool of three will not get you anything.
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#3 User is offline   RayEdinburgh 

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:47 PM

In a pool of three, why would anyone losing their fights actually stand on the poduim and accept a medal!, never mind look for ranking points as well.
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#4 User is offline   jedi-master 

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

View PostBudo, on 11 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

In a pool of three, why would anyone losing their fights actually stand on the poduim and accept a medal!, never mind look for ranking points as well.


It was bad enough that this comp clashed with the british university comp depleting the strenght of the southern. So any points gained were already easier to obtain without the need for non-winning persons the oppertunity to gain points wrongly
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#5 User is offline   Robert Medkwai 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:44 AM

View PostBudo, on 11 April 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

In a pool of three, why would anyone losing their fights actually stand on the poduim and accept a medal!, never mind look for ranking points as well.


just asking the question, not arguing that she deserves points
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#6 User is offline   RayEdinburgh 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

View PostRobert Medkwai, on 12 April 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

just asking the question, not arguing that she deserves points


i know you were, and in now way was this meant to be directed towards you. More toward the attitude of the many who want something for nothing.
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#7 User is offline   Alan Burnett 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

A majority of ranking comps, either domestic or international will implement this style of scoring.I think quite simply to encouraged ALL players in that group to fight for points/ medals rather than settle for them without winning. Usually tucked away in the small print of the entry form. Quite normal really.
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#8 User is offline   JustMum 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:15 PM

View PostBudo, on 12 April 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

..... More toward the attitude of the many who want something for nothing.


I am not knowledgeable about judo and don't claim to be - but having watched competitions, the participant who isn't the winning scorer has often done a great deal more than 'nothing'. An example would be watching my son competing against a player three belts above his grade at an open competition. The contest went to full time with level scores, then the higher graded player won by a yuko as a 'golden score'. I think this was a big achievement for a less experienced and knowledgeable player - a performance to be proud of, and would have no problem with my son accepting a medal (he did - but he had won other bouts in the pool)
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#9 User is offline   RayEdinburgh 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:38 PM

For mini mons yes, but the OP put up the senior ranking list, so you can assume its a senior he's talking about, if teenagers and adults think getting a medal for losing is a good thing then whats the point in competition.
I am speaking for myself here, no one else, i entered a Karate Kata competition last year, one of several, in my category there was three of us and i lost, they had lovely trophys to hand out and had i been so inclined i would have been on the rostrum being presented with a third place trophy to bring home and lie to myself that i had done well. I refused the trophy and a place on the rostrum because i would have been embarressed to be that guy. winners take the prize, losers go home emty handed and train harder for next time!
Spurned on by the loss several months later i won the Scottish championships.
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#10 User is offline   samsmith24 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostJustMum, on 12 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

I am not knowledgeable about judo and don't claim to be - but having watched competitions, the participant who isn't the winning scorer has often done a great deal more than 'nothing'. An example would be watching my son competing against a player three belts above his grade at an open competition. The contest went to full time with level scores, then the higher graded player won by a yuko as a 'golden score'. I think this was a big achievement for a less experienced and knowledgeable player - a performance to be proud of, and would have no problem with my son accepting a medal (he did - but he had won other bouts in the pool)


I also would have had no problem with my son accepting a medal if he lost all his fights. There was a period when despite all his best efforts he was being beaten by stronger and more developed players- he grew very tall quickly and had no strength and coordination. (Thankfully that stage has no passed.)It was a very hard period and very frustrating to see him (and many other boys like him who grew tall) struggling. We need to encourage these players so they can keep going. It is no wonder some judo clubs have only small players when they don't encourage those players who develop a lot slower for their age and are often are taller.

Personally I think Budo's attitude is totally wrong.He dishonours the first and second players by not being photographed with them. The first and second players want to be photographed with those they beat, otherwise it looks as if they didn't need to do anything to win.
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#11 User is offline   JustMum 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

My lad is still a junior grade - but I think the principle is the same. In judo winning isn't the be all and end all - and if the competitors that don't win every time don't bother to show up - well, there wouldn't be any winners, would there...

Sorry to digress..
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#12 User is offline   samsmith24 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostJustMum, on 12 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

My lad is still a junior grade - but I think the principle is the same. In judo winning isn't the be all and end all - and if the competitors that don't win every time don't bother to show up - well, there wouldn't be any winners, would there...

Sorry to digress..

I don't think it is a digression. It helps to explain why British judo has so many young people not continuing and dropping out . Who wants to continue if you are trying very hard but not experience success for various reasons with attitudes like those above? We all know competitive judo is hard but for some it is harder than others. We need to do every thing we can to encourage as many people as possible to compete (in different levels of competition) and work out ways to give them incentive to carry on when they experience disappointment.
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#13 User is offline   Alan Burnett 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:00 PM

Unfortunatly there are some out in the competitive circuit who would sit back and take ranking points or medal when they didnt win a fight. The system we are talking about trys to encourage all to really go for it, and not settle for less. Beginners or kids are slightly different and need medals and such like to keep them happy. Higher levels of competition more often than not have this system.
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#14 User is offline   RayEdinburgh 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:32 PM

View Postsamsmith24, on 12 April 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

I also would have had no problem with my son accepting a medal if he lost all his fights. There was a period when despite all his best efforts he was being beaten by stronger and more developed players- he grew very tall quickly and had no strength and coordination. (Thankfully that stage has no passed.)It was a very hard period and very frustrating to see him (and many other boys like him who grew tall) struggling. We need to encourage these players so they can keep going. It is no wonder some judo clubs have only small players when they don't encourage those players who develop a lot slower for their age and are often are taller.

Personally I think Budo's attitude is totally wrong.He dishonours the first and second players by not being photographed with them. The first and second players want to be photographed with those they beat, otherwise it looks as if they didn't need to do anything to win.


Well thats it then....i am without honour!
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#15 User is offline   RayEdinburgh 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

As a side note: its that attitude that encourages losing as being good. No one remembers who came second, nor does anyone care. The winners take the prize and the rest... well, they just need to train harder till its their time. For right or for wrong in whomevers opinion... mines is people are just far to soft now, scared to upset anyone, and quite happy to encourage mediocrity, as long as they get the numbers. coming second was never my goal.
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