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Hunched over. Rate Topic: ***-- 1 Votes

#1 User is offline   JudoHitman 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

Since I'm quite a tall guy standing at 6ft 3in, alot of people at my club tend to Hunch over, is there throw I can do from this position?
"Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand"
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#2 User is offline   jkw 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:36 PM

View PostJudoHitman, on 01 April 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Since I'm quite a tall guy standing at 6ft 3in, alot of people at my club tend to Hunch over, is there throw I can do from this position?


Could you please clarify: do you mean that your partners only hunch over when they are practicing with you, and you attribute this to the fact you are tall? In otherwords, with others of similar height, their posture is different?

Thanks

This post has been edited by jkw: 01 April 2012 - 10:51 PM

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#3 User is offline   judoratt 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostJudoHitman, on 01 April 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Since I'm quite a tall guy standing at 6ft 3in, alot of people at my club tend to Hunch over, is there throw I can do from this position?


Uchimata.
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#4 User is offline   Hanon 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:54 PM

View Postjudoratt, on 02 April 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

Uchimata.



Caution there. You will need to explain the type and entry required or the OP will be countered faster than he can change the dojo light bulbs. :glass)

Mike
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#5 User is offline   judoratt 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostHanon, on 01 April 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Caution there. You will need to explain the type and entry required or the OP will be countered faster than he can change the dojo light bulbs. :glass)

Mike


Maybe the bulbs need changing.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: He could be thrown dozens of times/more. I would assume that he would learn his judo in the dojo, everyone knows we won't teach him here.
Not to duck the question if he was at my dojo I would probably teach him a classic uchimata and work on it for at least six months before teaching on any variations. Probably the only variation I'd teach would be cane cane at his level if he picked up classic uchimata.
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#6 User is offline   RagingDemon 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:51 AM

A tall guy actually broke me of that hunched over habit by always snapping me down and choking me to the brink of death with okuri eri jime. He was also very good at a tomoe nage--> juji gatame/sankaku Jime. But I've been thrown with uchi mata plenty of times from being hunched over a few years back.

I am curious. When your opponent is hunched over is he trying to attack you at all or just being very defensive, if so with what have you been attacked with? Also is he hunting your legs?

This post has been edited by RagingDemon: 02 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

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#7 User is offline   JudoHitman 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

Thanks for the advice, a follow up question to the choking from this position, can you do a north/south choke? because generally I keep good posture despite my opponant being at a 90 degree angle and I often slip my hand to the opposite lepel to perform a front choke rather than getting his back for Okuri-eri-jime. In a Huntched position I'm interest in how I could perform Uchi-mata?
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#8 User is offline   Hanon 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

View PostJudoHitman, on 02 April 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Thanks for the advice, a follow up question to the choking from this position, can you do a north/south choke? because generally I keep good posture despite my opponant being at a 90 degree angle and I often slip my hand to the opposite lepel to perform a front choke rather than getting his back for Okuri-eri-jime. In a Huntched position I'm interest in how I could perform Uchi-mata?


I'll do my best to help you with an answer. First may I ask your rank, and experience so I know a little about your abilities. Not your CV just a little.
Do you know what uchimata is for example?

Speak again soon,

Regards,

Mike
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#9 User is offline   GregW 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

I had the same dilemma early on. I was 6 feet tall and weighed 115 lbs when I first started judo. I found tai-otoshi and the drop-knee seoinage variants worked well for me. I mainly used uchi mata as a setup for tai-otoshi.
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#10 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostJudoHitman, on 02 April 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Since I'm quite a tall guy standing at 6ft 3in, alot of people at my club tend to Hunch over, is there throw I can do from this position?


A large number of jûdô throws, though not all, are suited for throwing in such a position. However, this does not really answer your question although some might think it does. Why not ? Because the choice of throw really is only a minor aspect. There are other, far more important parts in the equation. However, at a certain point in his jûdô career, a jûdôka tends to think of jûdô throws as static actions. If you think of an opponent in a static position, and then consider entering a static jûdô throw, then obviously your options will be limited, especially for novices, but that really does not have much, or almost not anything to do with jûdô. After all, where is the 'jû' and where is the 'dô' in such action ?

It takes a long time to understand jû in a sense that one understand how it fits in jûdô and how it represents the essence of jûdô. If your opponet is in a 'hunched over' position, then there is a reason for it. No need to change it, let him do whatever he wants to do. Follow in the movement, in the actions, in the pulling, in the pushing, follow so much that you start 'sensing' your opponent rather than trying to overwhelm him with what it is you might have in mind. Instead, do not have anything in mind. As you allow your opponent to do whatever it is he wants to do simply follow with a larger or shorter step than what you might normally do, and see what happens. Following in the pattern even more than he might expect, is what produces unbalance in him. This is where the idea of jûdô comes in. The opponent who is unbalances will neither be hunched over nor be controlling you because at that point, he will need his or her attention to maintain or regain his balance. At this point opportunities for debana are created. Suddenly the idea for a throw is no longer a matter with how to overcome his strength or the fact that he is hunched over, but a simple matter of using this brief moment of unbalance before he regains it. Depending on the precise position of you two, differences in size, morphology, certain techniques might be more suitable. It will also depend on whether he leans forward of backward. At that moment of unbalance, you are the one who is in control, and you can extent that control now by provoking reactions through all kinds of actions you might induce. Each of these reactions of your opponent now provide new opportunity for debana.

Is it easier said than done ? Yes, obviously. The process to learn to recognize these situations takes time, just like it takes time to get rid of your acquired limitations such as to resist someone who pulls you.

Good luck !
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#11 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostGregW, on 02 April 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

I had the same dilemma early on. I was 6 feet tall and weighed 115 lbs when I first started judo. I found tai-otoshi and the drop-knee seoinage variants worked well for me. I mainly used uchi mata as a setup for tai-otoshi.


That's quite the body type.
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#12 User is offline   Judo Jeep 

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:56 PM

A tall guy with presumably long legs can do uchimata or tai otoshi all day long on people hunching over!
Your randori just got WAY easier!!
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#13 User is offline   slapacus 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

Is it wrong to pull them into you and push downwards with your grip to "help" them hunch down even more / or stand up to defend? I tend to do that when someone is very defensive and has stiff old arms. If I simply cannot get in or get movement I go with the flow, start stepping back whilst pushing down with my grip and every now and then they face plant/belly flop gently. When that happens I worry that I am not being or acting appropriately for "judo" as it is a take down but not on the back. Seems to me in reality that shouldn't matter but for shiai and perhps judo etiquette it does. Thoughts?
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#14 User is offline   Ben Reinhardt 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

View Postslapacus, on 19 April 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Is it wrong to pull them into you and push downwards with your grip to "help" them hunch down even more / or stand up to defend? I tend to do that when someone is very defensive and has stiff old arms. If I simply cannot get in or get movement I go with the flow, start stepping back whilst pushing down with my grip and every now and then they face plant/belly flop gently. When that happens I worry that I am not being or acting appropriately for "judo" as it is a take down but not on the back. Seems to me in reality that shouldn't matter but for shiai and perhps judo etiquette it does. Thoughts?


The real spirit of Judo would be to point out their poor posture and get them to stand up (in practice at least). In competition that sort of posture will (should, under current rules/interpretation) draw a defensive posture warning and then penalty.

Really, the instructor should be correcting their posture during class.
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#15 User is offline   slapacus 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

True, verbal encouragement is the best way, but in some cases we have guys who constantly go there despite the instructions. I just wanted to know if what I was doing would be seen as disrespectful as it can lead to a throw/takedown that is forward and not to the uke's back. So far it has been safe, i.e. no obvious increased risk of injury, as I am not slamming them down, but it seems to irriate the hunchers (or embarrass them which I don't really want to do).
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