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#1 User is offline   longintooth 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

I have just heard the most shocking bit of news, by all accounts everybody who has spent years as well as thousands of pounds studying for their degree/EJU level 3/4 ect.ect. coaching qualification have wasted their time and money as the qualification is not accepted by the BJA as a valid coaching qualification, thats right it's worthless,not worth the paper it's printed on as they say :o

So you can study for three years and not be qualified but yet you can do two weekends and run your own club !!!

Surley this can't be right, there must be a mistake

Somebody tell me this is a joke please
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#2 User is offline   Jonesy 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

I am afraid that you are 100% correct - the EJU qualifications are not accredited by the BJA, though to be fair, nowhere on the information about the courses does it claim that they are. The fact that some of the courses are delivered/examined in the UK by BJA luminaries such as Roy Inman is irrelevant. Also, I am not sure whether they're accepted by any other of the European NGBs either eg the FFJDA. It is of course wrong, Continental level coaching qualifications should be accepted and seen as being "higher" that those of National federations, exactly as they are in refereeing.

The only consolation point I can make is that anyone who passes the EJU courses should have no problem passing the BJA one.
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#3 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

View Postlongintooth, on 24 February 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I have just heard the most shocking bit of news, by all accounts everybody who has spent years as well as thousands of pounds studying for their degree/EJU level 3/4 ect.ect. coaching qualification have wasted their time and money as the qualification is not accepted by the BJA as a valid coaching qualification, thats right it's worthless,not worth the paper it's printed on as they say :o

So you can study for three years and not be qualified but yet you can do two weekends and run your own club !!!

Surley this can't be right, there must be a mistake

Somebody tell me this is a joke please


I can't comment on the BJA aspect, and there are people here who know the inside working of this organization far better than I do.

A couple of other points though. Indeed, virtually everyone will be disappointed when a qualification they obtained, studied for and paid tuition for is not accepted by a major organization which these students hoped to use their qualification for, irrespective of whether such eligibility was ever confirmed, suggested or surmised.

That being said, such downside, as major as it may be, does not imply that those students "wasted their time and money" or "it's worthless,not worth the paper it's printed on as they say".

The Foundation Degree and BS qualifications are issued by properly accredited universities, and they are for obvious and good reasons not subject to the approval of any national judo organization. Secondly, the most important thing of any program of study is what one learns in terms of knowledge, skills and abilities. Of course, it would be nice when an organization who itself would benefit the most from people within their organization having studied and obtained these knowledge, skills and abilities, and who in this way have shown their interest in and commitment to judo and increasing their depth of judo. If such organization is concerned about the contents then it is better to have constructive conversations with key players/organizations to meet each other desires.

A good way for considering these sort of issues is in a way similar to the Bologna Convention and how it brought some clarity, transferabilitiy, acceptance and unification of European academic programs of study. Unfortunately judo organizations have a long history and tendency of being very control-minded. Giving any form of accreditation out of their hands takes away that degree of authoritarian power. In a number of countries governments have solved this problem by taking away coaching awards from sports organizations to avoid the nepotism, grandfathering into positions & committees, and worse. Judo organizations speak only one language, that of money, probably since money also buys power outside of the Monopoly board of judo but in the real world. In other words, the government or governmental organization in such cases can tie the acceptance of certain coaching qualifications by that organization to being eligible or not eligible for government financial subsidies. In this way the freedom of organization is still respected, so the organization could then continue to refuse such qualifications and operate without government support in future. The other option is that the organizations such as UK Sport in their program finally provide waivers for people with certain qualfications such as the ones you are expressing concerns about or can be directly converted into their own qualifications. This is not just some avenue to consider, but also something urgently and necessary to consider in the light of international exchangeability and acceptance of coaching qualifications.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 23 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

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#4 User is offline   lwicks 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

I personally had this confirmed by BJA HQ last year. For me it was 5 years and the BJA does not have a place in its structure for the level 3,4,5 or 6 qualifications from the EJU.

I was told then it was less that they didn't value it. More that they have not found the resource to do so. It's an understandable position I guess. The BJA like many organisations in the UK has adopted the UKCC system. So they have a system.

The EJU qualifications are harder, longer and better than UKCC. So is hard as they need to find a way of putting a qualification in above their highest qualification. Tricky.

It's sad that it's been what 7 years and the BJA has not found a answer to the question of what to do about EJU qualifications.

Lastly, on the "Worthless", "waste of money" mindset. Disagree 100%, the value of making yourself a better coach has nothing to do with "being allowed to coach".
Its about pushing your limits, just like you did when you were an athlete... just your coaching and academic limits rather than physical and competitive limits.

It's not about starting a club and getting a tick in a BJA box, it's about making you a better coach so you can be better in the dojo.

My two cents.
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#5 User is offline   Gobshite 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

The Ukcc is a Government Lead qualification and was designed for all the sports (rugby rowing netball gymnastics are just a few) that took it up to have gone through a similar process and is what the government said would be the course only that they would accept in schools and not NGB qualifications
The BJA are looking to launch the UKCC Level 3 sometime this year

The Old BJA Prelim club and senior club coach Courses were ok but never adopted any modern research and had not been updated since the 70's so was outdated

The EJU courses are sound in what they deliver but would not be recognised by the government so this is where the the issue is

Having spoken to several high level BJA officials and asked why we do not have a 2 year study programme like France /EJU the reply was "it is hard enough for them to get people to do the UKcc as it is let alone a 2 year programme"
and on coach revalidation they say its still " hard to get coaches to to a 4 hour revalidation course once a year "

Any coaching course is good to attend as you are right it makes you a better coach and that is what people should continue to do

there would appear to be a need for a consultation so that all EJU course can be accepted into the BJA
the BJA have a process for converting foreign coaching certificates to BJA Lvel 1 2 and 3 the French certificate only transfers to BJA Level 3 so it would seem that the EJU levels would only be BJA Level 3 (but only if you are from abroad not if you are UK based)
Unless the BJA introduce levels 4 5 6 coaching this is where the system is

It would take the CEO Chairman Board of Directors to make the decision to accept the EJU course as BJA Coaching levels and can you see this happening with the current set up ?
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#6 User is offline   BomberH 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostGobshite, on 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

The EJU courses are sound in what they deliver but would not be recognised by the government so this is where the the issue is

My guess is that if the BJA told the "Government" that EJU qualifications were acceptable then the awards would be accepted. The government see the National Governing Body as the experts in judo matters. They would not overule them.


View PostGobshite, on 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Having spoken to several high level BJA officials and asked why we do not have a 2 year study programme like France /EJU the reply was "it is hard enough for them to get people to do the UKcc as it is let alone a 2 year programme"
and on coach revalidation they say its still " hard to get coaches to to a 4 hour revalidation course once a year "

I think that the issue is that in the UK virtually all coaches are part time volunteers. Expecting people to give up well paid jobs to undertake judo coaching awards would just destroy the current infrastructure and leave us with no coaches. Further, even if I could get paid employment with the BJA I would not quit my professional job for the sort of salaries they offer at the base level

View PostGobshite, on 24 February 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

the BJA have a process for converting foreign coaching certificates to BJA Lvel 1 2 and 3 the French certificate only transfers to BJA Level 3 so it would seem that the EJU levels would only be BJA Level 3
Only because the BJA don't have a level 4, 5 or 6.
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#7 User is offline   longintooth 

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

The simplest way that i can see is for the course organisers to incorporate the ukcc level 2/3 into the content of their course, or is that to easy after all it is only two wekends
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