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Neck Cranks and cross face...the forgotten holds Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   PointyShinyBurning 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:37 PM

What's the right way to do a can opener? Serious question, the 'best' versions I've ever seen are just ways to force a guy to open his guard, not any kind of locked-in sub.
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#17 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:28 PM

Step 1: Be wrestling with uke in a turn of the century barn

Step 2: Yell "Pig in a poke!"

Step 3: Don't know what guard is or how it works
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#18 User is offline   Glorfindel 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostPointyShinyBurning, on 19 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

What's the right way to do a can opener? Serious question, the 'best' versions I've ever seen are just ways to force a guy to open his guard, not any kind of locked-in sub.



Here is it : http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be
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#19 User is offline   Glorfindel 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostHedgehogey, on 19 February 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Step 1: Be wrestling with uke in a turn of the century barn

Step 2: Yell "Pig in a poke!"

Step 3: Don't know what guard is or how it works


Like i said, it look like you're pretty uneducated about cacc.

Anyway, what ever float your boat bjj fan boy.
Spartan Fight Club
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Sorry for my english, i'm french (Quebec)
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#20 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:07 PM

Hey what are you doing on judoforum? There's first day white belts that need to be footlocked! Chop chop!
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#21 User is offline   Glorfindel 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

View PostHedgehogey, on 19 February 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Hey what are you doing on judoforum? There's first day white belts that need to be footlocked! Chop chop!


That is your best answer?
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#22 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:12 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 19 February 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:



HAHAHAHAHA

Oh man look at the sublime, almost taoist perfection of technique. The heavens themselves applaud when the bearded guy puts his weight forward and his ass up in the terrified, scrawny white belt's guard. When he extends his arm like a tapout fanboy in a way that's pretty much giftwrapped, I shed a single tear, perhaps of laughter, perhaps of sadness.
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#23 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:14 PM

View PostGlorfindel, on 19 February 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

That is your best answer?


I'll come up with a better answer to you when you come up with a better answer to newb thrashing that doesn't involve applying a sub that could duck up their ACLs.
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#24 User is offline   Glorfindel 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PostHedgehogey, on 19 February 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHA

Oh man look at the sublime, almost taoist perfection of technique. The heavens themselves applaud when the bearded guy puts his weight forward and his ass up in the terrified, scrawny white belt's guard. When he extends his arm like a tapout fanboy in a way that's pretty much giftwrapped, I shed a single tear, perhaps of laughter, perhaps of sadness.



Did i said that's a high % sub? Please, if i did, tell me so.

I'm saying that's the best way to do a neck crank.

Someone pointed out that neck crank is like thai clinch, it's not true.

Did i stole your girlfriend or something? Why are you so agressiv?
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#25 User is offline   CHH 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostHedgehogey, on 19 February 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Cross facing is absolutely "inside the BJJ box". It's just done carefully in training because crossfacing can suck and rolling is about learning, not showing how long your pubes are.


That's like saying striking is inside the Judo box, or lethal death strikes are inside the JJJ box. As in to say....not at all.
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#26 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:22 AM

That isn't like that at all. Crossfacing is part of grappling and was taught to me in every big BJJ academy i've been to. Are you seriously going to tell me what is and isn't part of BJJ now?
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#27 User is offline   CHH 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:46 AM

View PostHedgehogey, on 20 February 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

Are you seriously going to tell me what is and isn't part of BJJ now?
Yes Helio Gracie, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I've literally seen full grown men, experienced BJJ purple belts break down in tears from being crossfaced at my gym (a primarily wrestling based gym). In his 6 years of BJJ, he had never once been crossfaced (or at least not properly, judging from his strong reaction to it).

Saying that people cross face in BJJ is EXACTLY like saying people practicing kani basami in Judo. They may practice it every once in a while, and you can do a half-assed one in competition, but if you do it properly in competition, you're going to get disqualified. Therefore....no one practices it. Go figure
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#28 User is offline   FlowWTG 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

View PostCHH, on 20 February 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Yes Helio Gracie, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I've literally seen full grown men, experienced BJJ purple belts break down in tears from being crossfaced at my gym (a primarily wrestling based gym). In his 6 years of BJJ, he had never once been crossfaced (or at least not properly, judging from his strong reaction to it).

Saying that people cross face in BJJ is EXACTLY like saying people practicing kani basami in Judo. They may practice it every once in a while, and you can do a half-assed one in competition, but if you do it properly in competition, you're going to get disqualified. Therefore....no one practices it. Go figure

That might just be his gym. I've seen crossfacing taught in every BJJ gym I've trained in (3). They do generally emphasize trying to make it as nice as crossfacing can be, but it is taught. As part of a takedown defense, opening up the RNC, and a couple moves from in front of all-fours.

I do train BJJ in the midwest, though, where half of every gym is former wrestlers. Might be a regional thing.
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#29 User is offline   PointyShinyBurning 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostCHH, on 20 February 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

I've literally seen full grown men, experienced BJJ purple belts break down in tears from being crossfaced at my gym (a primarily wrestling based gym). In his 6 years of BJJ, he had never once been crossfaced (or at least not properly, judging from his strong reaction to it).
Plural, or just one guy? Your sentences do not accord in number. When you say 'experienced' you mean had actually competed a lot? Cross-face like on defence to a take-down or neck-crank from back-mount or what?

I ask only because that is genuinely shocking to me.
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#30 User is offline   CHH 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostFlowWTG, on 20 February 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

That might just be his gym. I've seen crossfacing taught in every BJJ gym I've trained in (3). They do generally emphasize trying to make it as nice as crossfacing can be, but it is taught.


That's the point, if you're doing it nicely, it's not really a crossface. It's just a shoulder post. It's like doing uchimata slowly....not really the same thing.

This is a crossface



This is not



Nor is this



If you do a crossface like this...



..congrats, you're doing a crossface. otherwise, you're just placing your arm in between your opponent's head and your torso.

Coincidentally, that will get you DQ'd in a BJJ match, as will any good crossface that twists the cervical spine (pretty much the defining feature of a crossface, and it happens to be directly against IBJJF rules)

Sure, some BJJ gyms teach neck manipulation. And some judo guys teach leglocks. But it's at best thin ice in a tournament, and realistically anyone who does it enough will get DQ'd. So I think it's the height of hubris to think that, without practicing it either often, at full speed, or competing with it, that the art has a full grasp on either the correct application or effectiveness of said technique they never utilize. Its treading into the old school "Dim Mak" philosophy of "well we never practice it because it's too deadly, but we know for certain how to do it and we know exactly how to use it to defeat all other martial arts"

Give me a break. Next the freestyle wrestlers are going to show up and claim they know how to do gi grip fighting just as well as Judoka because they sometimes wear sweatshirts to wrestling practice :rolleyes:
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