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The Japanese men's heavyweights What happened? Rate Topic: -----

#31 User is offline   judomarshall 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:17 AM

here are some sizes of the athletes competing in the last all japan championships:

kazuhiko takahashi: 187cm 125kg
hiroki tachiyama: 193cm 145kg
daiki kamikawa: 185cm 145kg
toya sasaki: 176cm 130kg
keiji suzuki: 185cm 110kg
masaru momose: 185cm 120kg
yasuyuki muneta: 170cm 120kg
shoya ofuji: 184cm 130kg
makoto iwakami: 178cm 140kg
yuta kanzawa: 180cm 130kg
yoshinori wanifuchi: 185cm 135kg
yohei takai: 182cm 141kg

source: kindai judo magazine, may 2011 issue.

those are some big boys, who train full-time. pointybunny's assumption that the talent pool is small is not accurate imo.
because of the way competitions are run at the grassroots level up through university, the sport isnt all too kind to smaller judoka in japan and i think larger children gravitate towards judo more than a smaller child would.

the pool of talent at heavyweight in japan has to be as large, if not larger than all but a few countries around the world.
youll see, especially at the high school level that the teams are filled with fatboys, who if not for their size would never have a chance of winning. because of this, i think judo is generally a big man's sport in japan. if you look at the rosters of the top high school around japan, their A teams are almost exclusively filled with students over 90kg.

weight class tournaments are few and far between, even at the university level. most competitions are open weight team tournaments.

im -60 and for me, there are only a handful of tournaments i can enter with weight categories. unless you are a student, for someone under 81, that is not at an elite level and can qualify for the national tournaments, there are only a few tournaments yearly in japan with weight categories that i can think of:

all japan championships prefectural qualification tournament
all japan industry championships

other than those two, i cant think of any tournaments for non-students and non-police officers that have weight categories.

This post has been edited by judomarshall: 10 February 2012 - 08:31 AM

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#32 User is offline   PointyShinyBurning 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:17 AM

View Postjudomarshall, on 10 February 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

those are some big boys, who train full-time. pointybunny's assumption that the talent pool is small is not accurate imo.

The ultimate talent pool is necessarily smaller than in a country where people are bigger. There may be a much higher participation rate, or superior training or whatever else that covers it, but if the global standard and market penetration of Judo is rising (as many on this thread seem to be saying it is) then the Japanese are at a disadvantage (or a decreasing size of advantage). Especially if, as the rest of your post seems to suggest, they often spend their formative years crushing smaller people in open weight contests rather than learning how to deal with people their own size...
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#33 User is offline   judomarshall 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostPointyShinyBurning, on 10 February 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

The ultimate talent pool is necessarily smaller than in a country where people are bigger. There may be a much higher participation rate, or superior training or whatever else that covers it, but if the global standard and market penetration of Judo is rising (as many on this thread seem to be saying it is) then the Japanese are at a disadvantage (or a decreasing size of advantage). Especially if, as the rest of your post seems to suggest, they often spend their formative years crushing smaller people in open weight contests rather than learning how to deal with people their own size...


if the ultimate talent pool meant anything, the chinese would be doing much better in men's judo than they are. they had one good heavyweight around 2000 (pan?) and that was about it. places like new zealand will likely not ever get real good at judo even if their ultimate talent pool is superior because the greatest athletes there would probably go into rubgy. same with the u.s. the greatest heavyweight athletes are probably in the NFL.
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#34 User is offline   genetic judoka 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

View Postjudomarshall, on 10 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

if the ultimate talent pool meant anything, the chinese would be doing much better in men's judo than they are. they had one good heavyweight around 2000 (pan?) and that was about it. places like new zealand will likely not ever get real good at judo even if their ultimate talent pool is superior because the greatest athletes there would probably go into rubgy. same with the u.s. the greatest heavyweight athletes are probably in the NFL.

[obvious trolling]what about sumo then?[/obvious trolling]
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#35 User is offline   judoratt 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

View Postjudomarshall, on 10 February 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

if the ultimate talent pool meant anything, the chinese would be doing much better in men's judo than they are. they had one good heavyweight around 2000 (pan?) and that was about it. places like new zealand will likely not ever get real good at judo even if their ultimate talent pool is superior because the greatest athletes there would probably go into rubgy. same with the u.s. the greatest heavyweight athletes are probably in the NFL.

Japan has up to 3 million judoka and many of the best athletes gravitate to the sport. They are doing just fine. At this time they just don't have a answer for
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#36 User is offline   genetic judoka 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:43 PM

aside from my attempted trolling, learning what this thread has taught me about the way local shiai is structured in japan leads me to wonder: is that why the guys from japan in the lighter weight classes do so well? being used to competing against big guys probably makes dealing with people your size much easier, minus the speed difference of course.
"Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others." -H. Jackson Brown Jr.

"Wise men don't need to prove their point. Men who need to prove their point aren't wise" -Lao Tzu

"When torrential waters move a massive boulder, it is because of momentum.
When a hawk’s strike breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing." -Sun Tzu

"The Way of strategy is the Way of nature. When you appreciate the power of nature, knowing the rhythm of any situation,
you will be able to hit the enemy naturally and strike naturally. All this is the Way of the Void." -Miyamoto Musashi
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#37 User is offline   Qmystic 

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:23 PM

Its kind of unsettling that Japanese HW judoka are still expected to do so well. :sad(
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#38 User is offline   SeoulTee 

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:56 PM

I think Japan's HWs are as strong as they ever were. Judo is so widespread now because of the Olympics and all, everyone is producing awesome players. That being said, I do wish Satoshi Iishi had not stopeed judo for MMA. I think he would be the answer for Riner & Co.
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#39 User is offline   Emanuele 

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:43 AM

View PostSeoulTee, on 13 February 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

I do wish Satoshi Iishi had not stopeed judo for MMA. I think he would be the answer for Riner & Co.
Very good point!
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#40 User is offline   SeoulTee 

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:22 AM

Also, at the last 7 Olympic Games, Japan HW div won 4 golds and 2 silvers.
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#41 User is offline   ~12 

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:14 AM

View Postjudomarshall, on 10 February 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

because of the way competitions are run at the grassroots level up through university, the sport isnt all too kind to smaller judoka in japan and i think larger children gravitate towards judo more than a smaller child would.



Would you mind elaborating on this? I have a cousin in Japan who is small framed that I have encouraged to try Judo.
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#42 User is offline   Sylver 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

View Post~12, on 23 February 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Would you mind elaborating on this? I have a cousin in Japan who is small framed that I have encouraged to try Judo.

Not a problem. Plenty of small framed judokas around who get along great.

He might have a hard time against stronger, more skilled opponents, but so what? Judo is pretty safe. Besides, the benefits from doing Judo go far beyond winning.
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#43 User is offline   Francois 

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Postjudomarshall, on 10 February 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

because of the way competitions are run at the grassroots level up through university, the sport isnt all too kind to smaller judoka in japan and i think larger children gravitate towards judo more than a smaller child would.


What are you basing this on? I was on the smaller side as a child competing in Japan and was co captain of a university team in Japan. I have never found the above to be the case. In fact quite the opposite. The bigger judoka were always at the end of the line of a kohaku shiai and typically more was expected out of the bigger judoka even though size does not equal skill and talent.
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#44 User is offline   judomarshall 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:17 AM

View Postptnippon, on 25 February 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

What are you basing this on? I was on the smaller side as a child competing in Japan and was co captain of a university team in Japan. I have never found the above to be the case. In fact quite the opposite. The bigger judoka were always at the end of the line of a kohaku shiai and typically more was expected out of the bigger judoka even though size does not equal skill and talent.


how often are there kohaku shiai these days?
correct me if im wrong, but thats a rare occurence in japan.


anyways, to answer your question, im just basing this off of personal observations.
it would probably be better to have based it off of statistics, but since there are hardly any tournaments with weight classes prior to the cadet level, those might be hard to obtain.

This post has been edited by judomarshall: 25 February 2012 - 12:19 AM

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#45 User is offline   Francois 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:03 AM

View Postjudomarshall, on 24 February 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

how often are there kohaku shiai these days?
correct me if im wrong, but thats a rare occurence in japan.


anyways, to answer your question, im just basing this off of personal observations.
it would probably be better to have based it off of statistics, but since there are hardly any tournaments with weight classes prior to the cadet level, those might be hard to obtain.

Almost all of local kid's tournaments are based on the kohaku method.

Personal observations, where? Colleges in Japan, machi dojo, Kodokan?
"The arts of peace and the arts of war are like two wheels of a cart which, lacking one, will have difficulty in standing."�Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623)

"In battle, if you you make your opponent flinch, you have already won." --- Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
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