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Non-competitive Non-aggressiveness Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   bigpoppa 

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

Greetings everyone. First I love practicing judo overall. However over the years I've been deployed and not able to practice as much as before. Now I am retired and I am trying to get back into it. However I have never been an aggressive individual. My first instructor seemed alright with this and was content that I came to practice and tried randori. My new instructor however is more competition-focused and seems irritated by my lack of aggression. He continuously encourages everyone to compete in upcoming tournaments to which I don't. Now I feel that my turning up for judo is more along the lines of one of the more competitive students somebody to practice on. My dilemma is whether to stay with judo or pursue a different martial art.
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#2 User is offline   Mitesco 

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:56 PM

I think you have the proper mindset for judo, but not fitting in to every average dojo. I know a judo friend who has the same 'problem'. He will probably not survive judo and switch to aikido. I crosstrain in aikido and I must say... for the gentle aspect of my judo spirit, it's great.

My 2 cents: stay and survive, the biggest ippon for you will be to win over yourself. Masakatsu agatsu!



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#3 User is offline   Dutch 

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

Aggression is the will or intent to hurt someone just for the sake of hurting him, being satisfied by the deed. I think aggression in this context is the wrong term for it. What is lacking in the technique of "non-competitive" or "non-aggresive" judoka is usually dedication to the technique. Its one thing to make a perfect throw on a complying partner, but when the partner doesnt comply, you need a little "umph" to make the technique work. In my opinion its not aggression, but more the will to make it succeed. People that know me personally dont describe me as an aggressive person, I wouldnt describe myself as such either. I love to compete though, because I want to make my techniques work in whatever condition.

Well this little brainstorm does have a point. Its that there is no need to compete if you dont want to. But when your teacher tells you, you should be more aggressive, in fact he means you should have more dedication to your technique. A different kind from when you are doing uchi komi/nage komi or kata, but important nonetheless for judo.
Bushi no nasake - the tenderness of a warrior
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#4 User is offline   WBWAndering 

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:34 PM

Agression is agression, even though at a club there (theoretically) should be control over the agression. If you don't like throwing people because they get hurt, then leave judo. Judo is called The Great Crippler for a reason - it breaks people physically and mentally. If the idea of dominting your training partners on the mat is unwelcome - leave. A fine reason to leave and you shouldn't feel shame. There are consequences to this, mainly that if you never achieve competence as a martial artist, you'll never be able to defend yourself in a fight as well as you probably would like. :mellow:
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#5 User is offline   luckycharms 

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:03 PM

View PostWBWAndering, on 01 February 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Agression is agression, even though at a club there (theoretically) should be control over the agression. If you don't like throwing people because they get hurt, then leave judo. Judo is called The Great Crippler for a reason - it breaks people physically and mentally. If the idea of dominting your training partners on the mat is unwelcome - leave. A fine reason to leave and you shouldn't feel shame. There are consequences to this, mainly that if you never achieve competence as a martial artist, you'll never be able to defend yourself in a fight as well as you probably would like. :mellow:



Ignore this guy >>>> Replying To Does MMA really need "Trash Talking"?

View PostWBWAndering, on 01 February 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

That's like asking whether MMA really needs punching, kicking and grappling. I'm sure you can remove all of those and watch women's gymnastics instead.

Pain is weakness leaving your body.
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#6 User is offline   bigpoppa 

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:23 AM

View PostWBWAndering, on 01 February 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Agression is agression, even though at a club there (theoretically) should be control over the agression. If you don't like throwing people because they get hurt, then leave judo. Judo is called The Great Crippler for a reason - it breaks people physically and mentally. If the idea of dominting your training partners on the mat is unwelcome - leave. A fine reason to leave and you shouldn't feel shame. There are consequences to this, mainly that if you never achieve competence as a martial artist, you'll never be able to defend yourself in a fight as well as you probably would like. :mellow:

So you are stating that unless one takes up an art that forces them to be aggressive they can't defend themselves? I have to disagree with that. A lot of aikido and tai chi chuan practitioners are not aggressive people.
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#7 User is offline   Davaro 

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:32 AM

Have you tried just chatting to your new instructor about your lack of interest in competitions?

If I were you, I would just continue doing the Judo as you want to. No-one can ever force you to compete if you dont want to.
I have a few students that also are simply not cut from the competition cloth as well. We dont have a problem with that at all.

Unless of course your particular NGB requires competition points for grading, then you may be in a spot of bother and I dont have a solution if that is the case?

Are there no alternative clubs you can go to?
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#8 User is offline   CelestialTeapot 

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:59 AM

View Postbigpoppa, on 02 February 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Greetings everyone. First I love practicing judo overall. However over the years I've been deployed and not able to practice as much as before. Now I am retired and I am trying to get back into it. However I have never been an aggressive individual. My first instructor seemed alright with this and was content that I came to practice and tried randori. My new instructor however is more competition-focused and seems irritated by my lack of aggression. He continuously encourages everyone to compete in upcoming tournaments to which I don't. Now I feel that my turning up for judo is more along the lines of one of the more competitive students somebody to practice on. My dilemma is whether to stay with judo or pursue a different martial art.





Have you considered Kata competition?


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#9 User is offline   Hedgehogey 

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:33 AM

View Postbigpoppa, on 08 February 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

So you are stating that unless one takes up an art that forces them to be aggressive they can't defend themselves? I have to disagree with that. A lot of aikido and tai chi chuan practitioners are not aggressive people.


And for the most part those people can't fight either.

Listen OP. Aggression and peacefulness are both parts of what makes us human. In my daily life I encounter lots of people who swing to one extreme or the other (being both heavily involved in causes favored by hippies and combat sports makes that likely). A complete person has to try to balance these things within themselves. If you're aggro all the time you're not just harmful to others you also deplete all your energy in getting into petty beef. If you're squishy and loving to everything you harm yourself by letting others walk all over you and lose the ability to back up your standards of right and wrong with force if you have to.

In life as in on the mat, you have to balance aggression and peacefulness. If you don't attack with real oomph, especially in randori, you're denying your partner the benefits of the exercise.
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#10 User is offline   WBWAndering 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:56 PM

What Hedgehogey said. Agression is what enables a person to fight, whether in self-defense or otherwise. But, agression is not something that you either have or do not have. It is something that's acquired, in my experience. I used to be surprised by how the higher belts attacked in sparring, until I learned to take it to them. It's a fine line to walk.
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#11 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

I don't think aggression is what we train for in judo. But, before continuing, we should clarify that the actual meaning of the word 'aggression' is different than perhaps it is used in everyday life.

Here is a basic definition:

"Aggression, in its broadest sense, is behavior, or a disposition towards behavior, that is forceful, hostile or attacking. It may occur either in retaliation or without provocation. In narrower definitions that are commonly used in psychology and other social and behavioral sciences, aggression involves an intention to cause harm, even if only as a means to an end."

I think this would support Dutch's basic assertion as to the meaning of aggression. I certainly hope that the OP's club is not defined by this. That's basically these guys:

Posted Image

I think in judo we want to foster a 'fighting spirit', which is different from aggression. At least that's my personal experience so far. This is a belief in oneself, and one's abilities, and a certain resolve succeed, and to not give up -- to keep trying to prevail no matter what. I wouldn't define that as aggression. Further, I think one of the things we are trying to learn about when practicing judo, is to develop a belief in one's worth and capability by slowly and surely training oneself, and building oneself up to be stronger. Then, as your confidence grows, you attack more, as your belief that the attack can succeed grows, and your fear of failure diminishes.

One way we learn how to develop courage, resolve, and belief in oneself, aside from hard training, is to fail and try again. To keep getting knocked down, and keep getting up. Continual improvement, continual training. Never miss practice, etc. That's the purpose of shiai, to put oneself in the eye of the storm, and face it with skill, resolve and courage, not with aggression.

In fact, to put a point on my point, I've seen judo coaches CALM their players, in an effort to REDUCE aggression. Why? Because the aggression was making the judoka make stupid mistakes. There's the old saying: "The best defense is a good offense". In judo a better saying would be: "The best action is the right reaction."

Ultimately, judo training is about fine tuning your reactions. Action - reaction. Judo training will build reactions to certain actions. That really transcends notions of 'aggressive' or non-aggressive.

This post has been edited by bythesea: 19 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

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#12 User is offline   Ranma 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:36 PM

View Postbigpoppa, on 01 February 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Greetings everyone. First I love practicing judo overall. However over the years I've been deployed and not able to practice as much as before. Now I am retired and I am trying to get back into it. However I have never been an aggressive individual. My first instructor seemed alright with this and was content that I came to practice and tried randori. My new instructor however is more competition-focused and seems irritated by my lack of aggression. He continuously encourages everyone to compete in upcoming tournaments to which I don't. Now I feel that my turning up for judo is more along the lines of one of the more competitive students somebody to practice on. My dilemma is whether to stay with judo or pursue a different martial art.


Define aggression? Remember Judo is about using your energy efficiently. There is no particular level of aggression required.

But, while you shouldn't be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive, you should also make sure to never miss your opportunity.

Keep at Judo as long as you enjoy it. At some point nobody will criticize you for lack of aggression, because when you do attack, you throw. Nobody will make you compete either because you'd already proven yourself.

I think the only thing you need to worry about is how to make the most out of every practice.
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#13 User is offline   Ranma 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:41 PM

Another thing that you realize as you learn Judo is that everyone's Judo is different, even if they do the same exact techniques. Everyone has a different style that reflects their personality. You will have to develop your own style. If you are not an aggressive person, you will need to develop your techniques for your level of aggression, and techniques to deal with aggressive people.

At some point you will be able to learn a lot about someone just looking at how they play Judo. Maybe the people in your new club just aren't your kind of people.
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#14 User is offline   danguy 

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

View Postbigpoppa, on 01 February 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

... over the years I've been deployed and not able to practice as much as before.

You have proven you fully understand aggression and being aggressive. Subject closed. And thank you for your service.

As to Judo, what you don't wish to be is defensive. That means, just waiting to counter is not good Judo. One needs to attack as well as defend, use combination and counters; but do so in proper balance.

In shiai, this is measured as attacking with a minimum frequency and playing with a minimum of pure defensiveness as set by the rules.

Ask the coach/instructor/sensei if by aggressive they are trying to really discuss frequency of attacks and commitment of the attacks made. I believe that will likely be the case.

In Judo, generally being aggressive for aggression's sake leads to poorer Judo filled with more mistakes, than when you function from a cool headed position and frame of mind.

No need to eat anyone's heart or liver after a successful ippon.
If I am doing "win," sloppy and sissy is fine; if I am doing Judo, beautiful is my rule and goal. Judo is far more important and rewarding than "win."

"What you are as a person is far more important than what you are as a basketball [Judo] player." --John Wooden 1910-2010

"You should first try to negotiate nicely but you can be strong after there's resistance, and know, just like in judo, when to catch them." --Rusty Kanokogi, 2008, on negotiating.
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#15 User is offline   bigpoppa 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

Thanks to everyone for the correction on my usage of "aggressiveness". Your positive criticism and more importantly solutions have given me a better path to look at. Specifically the idea that my problem may not be aggression but lack of confidence in the technique or techniques itself. I am going to work on this with my instructor as well as on my own. Although I can't agree with Hedgehogey's viewpoint I do thank him as well for replying. :hap:

This post has been edited by bigpoppa: 29 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

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