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BJA - time for change at the top? Rate Topic: -----

Poll: BJA - time for change at the top? (60 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Densign White resign as BJA Chair?

  1. Yes (54 votes [90.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.00%

  2. No (6 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

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#1 User is offline   yawarajudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:09 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...do/15129350.stm

In the wake of the most unsuccessful period in modern British judo, and with only 10 months until the Olympics on home soil, isn't now the time for Densign White to finally do the honourable thing and resign?

The above article is damning in its indictment of White's tenure at the top. In the article, he admits how "Dartford never took off in the way we anticipated." Really? And you think that we only know that now? Surely we knew that within months of its inception, when the top players were complaining that the lack of contact with personal coaches, lack of facilities and lack of cohesion at the centre? The fact that it never took off is the fault of the leadership for an ill-conceived, poorly planned, under consulted project that should never have gone beyond a piece of paper.

The departure of key personnel over recent weeks comes in the wake of a clear out of any dissenting voices from within BJA Head Office and does nothing to solve the recent problems. Does anyone really believe that the balance of power lay with Margaret and Patrick? If this is what Densign would have us believe, then he is not fit to lead the association anyway! A leader leads, full stop. With success come the plaudits, and with failure the consequences.

Densign White must resign, along with Scott MacCarthy, if British judo is to retain any integrity with its membership. It will not resolve the crisis pre-2012 but it might allow some dignity to be salvaged at 2016 and beyond.
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#2 User is offline   philjudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 06:17 PM

Resignation is what's needed but you won't get it. Neither DW or SM can afford a resignation due to incompetence on their CV because it will blight their future roles so hence no resignation. The only way is a vote of no confidence and thats looking extremley unlikely because no one is chancing putting their head over the parrapet as they are not sure others will back them when push comes to shove.If its a complete farce at the Games then DW & SM will just walk away and blame others for the failure and never themselves.

The question for me is, Why wait until they are 10 months away from the games before a coaching revamp surely this should have been 2 1/2 years ago. Overpaid and undertalented coaches for the level of performance required for the job. Roux would probably have been a brilliant cadet coach but never a senior coach.

This post has been edited by philjudo: 03 October 2011 - 06:20 PM

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#3 User is offline   neill 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 08:46 PM

The Kerith Brown for chair campaign is already underway.
leafets supporting his nomination were in abundance at Liverpool.
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#4 User is offline   philjudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:15 PM

View Postneill, on 03 October 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

The Kerith Brown for chair campaign is already underway.
leafets supporting his nomination were in abundance at Liverpool.


What would we benefit from that?? He's not been around for years.
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#5 User is offline   yawarajudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:21 PM

As in Kerrith Brown, of the positive drugs test 1988? How would that enhance the reputation of the BJA? Unless I am missing something that in the meantime his bronze medal has been reinstated? Anyone with clear information?
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#6 User is offline   Greek 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:22 PM

[quote name='philjudo' date='03 October 2011 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1317665832' post='666314']
Resignation is what's needed but you won't get it. Neither DW or SM can afford a resignation due to incompetence on their CV because it will blight their future roles so hence no resignation. The only way is a vote of no confidence and thats looking extremley unlikely because no one is chancing putting their head over the parrapet as they are not sure others will back them when push comes to shove.If its a complete farce at the Games then DW & SM will just walk away and blame others for the failure and never themselves.

I have just read the BBC article and you are correct Philjudo .... when Densign says "Dartford never had the support of all the athletes and personal coaches so the blame for failure doesn't lie entirely with the high performance staff. They (the athletes and coaches) still don't understand it's not possible for them to reach the necessary international level whilst training in their independent facilities." he is trying to shift the emphasis. What he says may be true, as without everyone pulling together there were always going to be problems and divided opinions. SO, why didn't he lead and make sure that it WAS NOT possible to train independently (and still get picked), if this was felt to be so important. Don't blame the (desperate) players and coaches for doing their very best to get something positive out of a bad situation .... the players don't get many chances to make an Olympics and must have faith in coaches and systems, even when they don't necessarily fully agree with them. It was the job of him and his staff to make sure that players and coaches 'bought in' to the system. Please change tack Densign, it smacks of the knee jerk 'blame the personal coaches' reaction to Beijing results. He should take responsibility squarely on his shoulders .... it is his watch. Perhaps his quote should have been "..... so the blame for failure doesn't lie entirely with the high performance staff, some of it lies with me too !"
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#7 User is offline   yawarajudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:27 PM

The most alarming thing for me about all of this is that people are so afraid of speaking up! That in itself is indicative of a regime that leads by silencing or ignoring its critics, of refusing to engage with its members, which we all know about from the suspension of the forum.

This should not be a case of people putting their heads above the parapets, but should be an opportunity for people to express their opinions freely, without fear of sanctions or reprisals. Surely the fact that most people are afraid to do this is just another in the long list of reasons why the people at the top, DW and SM, have to go.
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#8 User is offline   yawarajudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:41 PM

View PostGreek, on 03 October 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

Resignation is what's needed but you won't get it. Neither DW or SM can afford a resignation due to incompetence on their CV because it will blight their future roles so hence no resignation. The only way is a vote of no confidence and thats looking extremley unlikely because no one is chancing putting their head over the parrapet as they are not sure others will back them when push comes to shove.If its a complete farce at the Games then DW & SM will just walk away and blame others for the failure and never themselves.

I have just read the BBC article and you are correct Philjudo .... when Densign says "Dartford never had the support of all the athletes and personal coaches so the blame for failure doesn't lie entirely with the high performance staff. They (the athletes and coaches) still don't understand it's not possible for them to reach the necessary international level whilst training in their independent facilities." he is trying to shift the emphasis. What he says may be true, as without everyone pulling together there were always going to be problems and divided opinions. SO, why didn't he lead and make sure that it WAS NOT possible to train independently (and still get picked), if this was felt to be so important. Don't blame the (desperate) players and coaches for doing their very best to get something positive out of a bad situation .... the players don't get many chances to make an Olympics and must have faith in coaches and systems, even when they don't necessarily fully agree with them. It was the job of him and his staff to make sure that players and coaches 'bought in' to the system. Please change tack Densign, it smacks of the knee jerk 'blame the personal coaches' reaction to Beijing results. He should take responsibility squarely on his shoulders .... it is his watch. Perhaps his quote should have been "..... so the blame for failure doesn't lie entirely with the high performance staff, some of it lies with me too !"


EXACTLY! If Dartford was the answer, then it should have been made to happen as planned, no exceptions. To blame everyone else for not engaging with the process, whilst maybe partially accurate, does not excuse a leader who is unable to lead! Either the decisions were the responsibility of DW, in which case he is to blame directly for them, or they were not down to him, in which case he is to blame indirectly for not effectively managing his staff. Either way, the buck should and does stop with him, and he should do the honourable thing and go.
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#9 User is online   Jonesy 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:04 PM

I have said it a lot:

View PostMichael Hanwell, on 13 March 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:


Now come on max. We are grown ups here. Why not join us and tell us who in the BJA you think needs sacking. After all, it's not as though you face the threat of sack yourself is it?

View PostJonesy, on 13 March 2009 - 01:45PM, said:


I will happily do it - in any order - Densign White, Scott McCarthy, Colin McIver... as a start.



View PostJonesy, on 12 August 2011 - 07:24 PM, said:


I am pretty sure that the same old lines after the disaster of the last Olympics will be re-rehearsed - "the team in place are the best ones to learn the lessons from this and move forwards" or "I need to stay in post to make sure that the changes needed are implemented."Plus ca-change......

White out now! McCarthy out now!


View PostJonesy, on 30 July 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:



....This is the last thing the BJA need. The joint first thing they need is a new Chairman and a new CEO.

White out! McCarthy out!

Dr Llyr C Jones
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#10 User is offline   yawarajudo 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:26 PM

View PostJonesy, on 03 October 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

I have said it a lot:



Thanks Jonesy - gets a thumbs up from me.
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#11 User is offline   geogiepeng 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 10:49 PM

View PostGreek, on 03 October 2011 - 10:22 AM, said:

"Dartford never had the support of all the athletes and personal coaches so the blame for failure doesn't lie entirely with the high performance staff. They (the athletes and coaches) still don't understand it's not possible for them to reach the necessary international level whilst training in their independent facilities." he is trying to shift the emphasis. What he says may be true, as without everyone pulling together there were always going to be problems and divided opinions. SO, why didn't he lead and make sure that it WAS NOT possible to train independently (and still get picked), if this was felt to be so important.

They were never going to sell Dartford as a central location. A significant block of players & coaches held out because they believed it couldn't work without their buy-in. Buy-in is always easier if the solution is seen to be well thought out and fair. This was seen by many as neither one, nor the other. How does the story go, The Three Little Pigs, I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down.
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#12 User is online   seatea 

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 12:14 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but what does the roll of BJA chairman entail?
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#13 User is offline   max 

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 02:23 AM

View Postseatea, on 04 October 2011 - 01:14 AM, said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what does the roll of BJA chairman entail?


Well since Densign has had the job, the answer is, appoint a CEO (to do all the things the previous Chairman did) while you go off swanning around the EJU looking to feather your own nest, while blaming others for your own incompetence.

And does anyone really think the BJA will be better with Kerrith running it? For a start he seems to be involved with the company selling Greenhill suits in the UK, which surely would be a massive conflict of interests. And as Densign was seen fetching and carrying for them, do we assume he is involved as well, or just helping out an old friend
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#14 User is offline   philjudo 

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 06:26 AM

View Postyawarajudo, on 03 October 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

EXACTLY! If Dartford was the answer, then it should have been made to happen as planned, no exceptions. To blame everyone else for not engaging with the process, whilst maybe partially accurate, does not excuse a leader who is unable to lead! Either the decisions were the responsibility of DW, in which case he is to blame directly for them, or they were not down to him, in which case he is to blame indirectly for not effectively managing his staff. Either way, the buck should and does stop with him, and he should do the honourable thing and go.



Dartford COULD have been the answer if the players had a living wage to train, It's OK giving a select few a wage but what about the ones who were expected to be there at all the sessions with little or no expenses or wages because the BJPI needed bodies for it to function.
Some players that were on a pittance to start with had it withdrawn and the use of a physio stopped after injuries.
One player that I know well said it cost them money to train there because a piddling grant that they were given never even covered the cost of fuel to get to the training sessions and they very quickly found themselves in debt which is still growing. The methods that were used killed any depth in the squads as in if its only the No1 that is funded and all others have little or no funding and can't get to the sessions then who does the No1 train with?? You can't train technique on your own. It's probably correct that the club system alone can't produce Olympic champions but this BJPI system was doomed to failure as many coaches pointed out but no one listened. It was their way or no way.What will happen after funding is withdrawn after 2012?? because Dartford as a BJPI will probably cease to be.
Neither the players or personal coaches were completly happy or confident with the system or the set up. The personal coaches were in the main blanked from their own player. What a disaster and probably the biggest opportunity as regards the Olympics that we will ever see for another 50 years or more just thrown away.

Imagine if the system had been set up where IE you had Miller,Fallon Ashley and so on under one roof and enjoying training for a common aim with a living wage.

This post has been edited by philjudo: 04 October 2011 - 06:39 AM

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#15 User is offline   philjudo 

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 07:35 AM

View Postmax, on 04 October 2011 - 02:23 AM, said:

Well since Densign has had the job, the answer is, appoint a CEO (to do all the things the previous Chairman did) while you go off swanning around the EJU looking to feather your own nest, while blaming others for your own incompetence.

And does anyone really think the BJA will be better with Kerrith running it? For a start he seems to be involved with the company selling Greenhill suits in the UK, which surely would be a massive conflict of interests. And as Densign was seen fetching and carrying for them, do we assume he is involved as well, or just helping out an old friend



Maybe they will be the only suits that GBR players can use with Adidas and fighting films being pushed out by order of the management.

This post has been edited by philjudo: 04 October 2011 - 07:39 AM

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