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Kodokan Goshinjitsu at World Judo Kata Championships 2011 Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Jonesy 

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:42 PM

Thanks to Emanule


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AQz56rGvoR0




Dr Llyr C Jones
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#2 User is offline   BomberH 

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 10:48 PM

View PostJonesy, on 03 September 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:



Excellent performance
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#3 User is offline   billc 

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 03:12 AM

... and a performance it was. So ... everyone had to wear those banners on the back of their judogi?
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#4 User is offline   finarashi 

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:22 AM

View Postbillc, on 04 September 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

... and a performance it was. So ... everyone had to wear those banners on the back of their judogi?

This was an IJF competition! So also judogi needed to confirm IJF specification.
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#5 User is offline   Taigyo 

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:58 PM

nice, but still some problems with kuzushi and timing that even I could detect. I would say about 75 out of 100 ( I know this is not standard scoring but it is much easier to understand than the usual arcane formulas). Looking at their technique it is all very polished and nice, but is it really working? The only way to really tell is to practice with both uke and tori and feel their technique (or lack of it). In some cases the response was visually obvious, but in others maybe something was happening, but I couldn't see it. I think perhaps the real difference between training kata and performing kata is that when you are training kata your ultimate objective is to make the technique "work", something that may be difficult for anyone other than you and your partner to detect. In performing kata you are interested in the appearance of the kata to others and performing to their standard rather than your own internal standard of functionality. This is the same way that we approach isolated techniques in Judo, we are worried about their functionality, if they look nice (which they typically will if they are efficacious) that is cool, but entirely a beneficial byproduct of their functionality.
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#6 User is offline   wdax 

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:11 PM

This year at the EC they were (surprisingly) beaten by another italian team.



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#7 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:08 PM

View Postwdax, on 28 November 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

This year at the EC they were (surprisingly) beaten by another italian team.


As a side note, after I was looking at this thread I decided to watch goshinjutsu performed by those who actually created it, in the case of the performance I watched, was no one other than Tomiki himself. It had been a while since I had watched it. It is night and day difference. It's a private recording and I can't post it, but goshinjutsu by Tomiki is completely natural. For example, there are cases where the uke grabs tori, misses, grabs him again, just like in a natural circumstance would occur. It does not feel 'wrong' at all, it is not an 'error', it is realistic above anything. Also the place where uke lands is clearly not determined, which is logical, since it depends on speed, size, impact, time and degree to which balance is lost; same for the number of steps; in reality they are not and cannot be predetermined. Logic does tell that one step in 95% of cases will be not enough to establish full control just like 27 steps is likely too much, but for the rest it is impossible to say beforehand how many steps tori will make. When you watch this performance by the actual creators, the words 'wrong' or 'error' were not in my mind for a single time, even though the performers were all over the place, but ... each time proportional to the interaction that was taking place. When Tomiki does this it is full of energy and spontaneity. This is particularly striking as in so many performances today the performances are very tense, stiff in a sense that actions are really chop-chop-chop, almost like one has to make sure one does not make a step too many or too few, not lose a grip. Seriously, it is shocking the difference, literally. Remind me to show you this one day.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 28 November 2011 - 12:44 AM

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#8 User is offline   Taigyo 

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:28 AM

View PostCichorei Kano, on 27 November 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

As a side note, after I was looking at this thread I decided to watch goshinjutsu performed by those who actually created it, in the case of the performance I watched, was no one other than Tomiki himself. It had been a while since I had watched it. It is night and day difference. It's a private recording and I can't post it, but goshinjutsu by Tomiki is completely natural. For example, there are cases where the uke grabs tori, misses, grabs him again, just like in a natural circumstance would occur. It does not feel 'wrong' at all, it is not an 'error', it is realistic above anything. Also the place where uke lands is clearly not determined, which is logical, since it depends on speed, size, impact, time and degree to which balance is lost; same for the number of steps; in reality they are not and cannot be predetermined. Logic does tell that one step in 95% of cases will be not enough to establish full control just like 27 steps is likely too much, but for the rest it is impossible to say beforehand how many steps tori will make. When you watch this performance by the actual creators, the words 'wrong' or 'error' were not in my mind for a single time, even though the performers were all over the place, but ... each time proportional to the interaction that was taking place. When Tomiki does this it is full of energy and spontaneity. This is particularly striking as in so many performances today the performances are very tense, stiff in a sense that actions are really chop-chop-chop, almost like one has to make sure one does not make a step too many or too few, not lose a grip. Seriously, it is shocking the difference, literally. Remind me to show you this one day.

I have one of Hal Sharp sensei's DVD that has a part of the original presentation at the old Suidobashi Kodokan. It is from kind of far away, but it looked like a fight. That is what my partner and I are trying to work towards (without killing one another). I was uke for my Sensei when we did goshinjutsu for a local Judo seminar. He decided to turn on the gas and my job was basically attack and then try to survive. It was an open seminar (a benefit for a former club member) and included quite a few BJJ/MMA guys. Everyone loved it, no one (especially me) questioned the reality of the techniques.
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