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Twenty-one foot rule Looking for a reputable source Rate Topic: ***** 2 Votes

#31 User is offline   danguy 

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:17 PM

View PostSteve Leadbeater, on 26 May 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

Dan, Generic and J-UK,

I have been in a situation where I was disarmed and standing between my
gun barrel and a bunch of innocent bystanders, and it is not something I can
reccommend, but at least the perp was stupid enough to look when I
said "the safety is still on"......on a revolver, ;wry) I don't think he even
saw my fist connect with the side of his head before I drove him into
the floor as two others hit him from behind, they couldn't shoot because
of me and the civillians behind me.
He was not known to be a violent threat and had never been known to handle firearms,
but at this event he tried to take me out with my own revolver.

I used to shoot "Service Pistol" Matches using Revolver and Semi Auto Pistols
and I was involved for many years with IPSC shooting too, I have used both
"DUTY" and "SPORTING" Holsters and my times are not that far apart either,
I will point out that in 2000 I was the SSAA Queensland IPSC (Modified) Champion. :big grin:

I have NEVER liked the idea of having to draw down on another human being,....BUT....
if there are options of going home at the end of a long shift after completing an
"Officer Involved Shooting" report and ending up on a slab in the Morgue...........

I'll take the paperwork every time. :manoyes: :manoyes:


Warrior Spirit:

  • How to win a "Street Fight."
  • The need to be ready to kill.
  • When you can't walk away.
  • Why injury doesn't stop some folks.

http://www.policeone...in-jared-reston

This post has been edited by danguy: 13 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

If I am doing "win," sloppy and sissy is fine; if I am doing Judo, beautiful is my rule and goal. Judo is far more important and rewarding than "win."

"What you are as a person is far more important than what you are as a basketball [Judo] player." --John Wooden 1910-2010

"You should first try to negotiate nicely but you can be strong after there's resistance, and know, just like in judo, when to catch them." --Rusty Kanokogi, 2008, on negotiating.
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#32 User is offline   smitty2A35 

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:38 AM

View Postdanguy, on 13 June 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

Warrior Spirit:

  • How to win a "Street Fight."
  • The need to be ready to kill.
  • When you can't walk away.
  • Why injury doesn't stop some folks.

http://www.policeone...in-jared-reston


Watched this back in April...made the latest crop of new guys watch it. Things can go from good to bad to OH $h! faster than you think.

Definitely recommend watching the interview. In all the internet squabbles over what works and what doesn't / sport vs combat (MA or shooting), mindset is usually THE biggest deciding factor when things go south.

Thanks for posting that here.
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#33 User is offline   danguy 

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:22 PM

View Postsmitty2A35, on 13 June 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

Watched this back in April...made the latest crop of new guys watch it. Things can go from good to bad to OH $h! faster than you think.

Definitely recommend watching the interview. In all the internet squabbles over what works and what doesn't / sport vs combat (MA or shooting), mindset is usually THE biggest deciding factor when things go south.

Thanks for posting that here.

Glad to have done so, you are welcome.

I hope it helps some folks understand the real world is different from the tatami, mats, floor, ring, cage or what ever surface you practice upon in the club.

For me, I had the unfortunate circumstance of only carrying a knife (twice) when shooting started. Judo training has been credited with allowing me to tell the stories.

This post has been edited by danguy: 14 June 2011 - 07:23 PM

If I am doing "win," sloppy and sissy is fine; if I am doing Judo, beautiful is my rule and goal. Judo is far more important and rewarding than "win."

"What you are as a person is far more important than what you are as a basketball [Judo] player." --John Wooden 1910-2010

"You should first try to negotiate nicely but you can be strong after there's resistance, and know, just like in judo, when to catch them." --Rusty Kanokogi, 2008, on negotiating.
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#34 User is offline   Steve Leadbeater 

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:39 PM

View Postdanguy, on 15 June 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:



For me, I had the unfortunate circumstance of only carrying a knife (twice) when shooting started.




NEVER NEVER NEVER bring a knife to a Gunfight :unsure: :unsure:
Do unto others BEFORE they DO you !!!

Join the A.B.H.A. (Aussie Badger Hunting Association)

Alas, poor Mongo, I knew him Horatio, the fellow was an infinite pest !!!

Yes, that is Daigo 10th Dan with me in my profile picture.

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#35 User is offline   genetic judoka 

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 05:39 PM

View PostSteve Leadbeater, on 14 June 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

NEVER NEVER NEVER bring a knife to a Gunfight :unsure: :unsure:


not even this knife?
Posted Image

or what about these?
Posted Image

This post has been edited by genetic judoka: 16 June 2011 - 05:43 PM

"Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others." -H. Jackson Brown Jr.

"Wise men don't need to prove their point. Men who need to prove their point aren't wise" -Lao Tzu

"When torrential waters move a massive boulder, it is because of momentum.
When a hawk’s strike breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing." -Sun Tzu

"The Way of strategy is the Way of nature. When you appreciate the power of nature, knowing the rhythm of any situation,
you will be able to hit the enemy naturally and strike naturally. All this is the Way of the Void." -Miyamoto Musashi
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#36 User is offline   danguy 

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:50 PM

View PostSteve Leadbeater, on 14 June 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

NEVER NEVER NEVER bring a knife to a Gunfight :unsure: :unsure:


Well it is not like I planned to get into a one sided gun battle. If I did expect it , I would have come better equipped. I have also had one when another did too. His action to put it down saved his life, as he was to be head shot by me in a second or so plus/minus. But frankly, in the circumstances, a gun would not have changed my actions as I did what kept me alive and a gun would not have changed those actions.

Now there is a bit a a range when it comes to knives.


If I am doing "win," sloppy and sissy is fine; if I am doing Judo, beautiful is my rule and goal. Judo is far more important and rewarding than "win."

"What you are as a person is far more important than what you are as a basketball [Judo] player." --John Wooden 1910-2010

"You should first try to negotiate nicely but you can be strong after there's resistance, and know, just like in judo, when to catch them." --Rusty Kanokogi, 2008, on negotiating.
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#37 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:54 PM

View Postgenetic judoka, on 16 June 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

not even this knife?
Posted Image


You could literally hide behind the knife to avoid the bullets, lol.
Kuchiwaza -- my tokuiwaza.
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#38 User is offline   smitty2A35 

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:59 PM

View Postbythesea, on 16 June 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

You could literally hide behind the knife to avoid the bullets, lol.


So then the question is: Is the knife used as concealment or cover?
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#39 User is offline   danguy 

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:00 PM

View Postbythesea, on 16 June 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

You could literally hide behind the knife to avoid the bullets, lol.

Yes, but who would carry such a knife? It looks to be better dragged than carried.
If I am doing "win," sloppy and sissy is fine; if I am doing Judo, beautiful is my rule and goal. Judo is far more important and rewarding than "win."

"What you are as a person is far more important than what you are as a basketball [Judo] player." --John Wooden 1910-2010

"You should first try to negotiate nicely but you can be strong after there's resistance, and know, just like in judo, when to catch them." --Rusty Kanokogi, 2008, on negotiating.
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#40 User is offline   Steve Leadbeater 

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:06 AM

View Postsmitty2A35, on 17 June 2011 - 06:59 AM, said:

So then the question is: Is the knife used as concealment or cover?



In this case I would think as both..........and also as a fitness tool when lifting it !!

This post has been edited by Steve Leadbeater: 17 June 2011 - 12:06 AM

Do unto others BEFORE they DO you !!!

Join the A.B.H.A. (Aussie Badger Hunting Association)

Alas, poor Mongo, I knew him Horatio, the fellow was an infinite pest !!!

Yes, that is Daigo 10th Dan with me in my profile picture.

Mizuno Owners Club Member number 2.
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#41 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:43 AM

View Postsmitty2A35, on 16 June 2011 - 12:59 PM, said:

So then the question is: Is the knife used as concealment or cover?



View Postdanguy, on 16 June 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

Yes, but who would carry such a knife? It looks to be better dragged than carried.



View PostSteve Leadbeater, on 16 June 2011 - 05:06 PM, said:

In this case I would think as both..........and also as a fitness tool when lifting it !!


I'd bring it with me to Australia, and find someone with a large knife, wheel it over on a dolly, and in my worst American version of an Australian accent say: "Now that's a knife mate." Then I'd pop open one of those giant Foster's can's and take a swig. :lol:
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#42 User is offline   smitty2A35 

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:21 AM

View Postbythesea, on 16 June 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

I'd bring it with me to Australia, and find someone with a large knife, wheel it over on a dolly, and in my worst American version of an Australian accent say: "Now that's a knife mate." Then I'd pop open one of those giant Foster's can's and take a swig. :lol:


I heard that was Australian for beer!
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#43 User is offline   Steve Leadbeater 

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 12:28 AM

bythesea and smitty2A35,

Gentlemen, how many times must I tell you,
the reason we EXPORT Fosters to your countries
is...... We have better Truck Degreasing Agents
for cleansing purposes and dont need to use Fosters.

Real Beer comes from CASTLEMAINE PERKINS BREWERIES...........the makers of Castlemaine XXXX Lager. :manoyes: :manoyes:
Do unto others BEFORE they DO you !!!

Join the A.B.H.A. (Aussie Badger Hunting Association)

Alas, poor Mongo, I knew him Horatio, the fellow was an infinite pest !!!

Yes, that is Daigo 10th Dan with me in my profile picture.

Mizuno Owners Club Member number 2.
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#44 User is offline   Judo Jeep 

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 06:34 PM

I have seen the training and seen the videos and seen the instructor who teaches that stuff. It makes REAL sense. Inside of 21 feet with a person with a weapon (a knife in particular) is a VERY dangerous place. He can cover that 21 feet in the blink of an eye if he knows what he is doing and the only way to tell is the result! Fight with someone with a knife ... you WILL get cut.

Police officers will tell you that if they see a knife the handgun comes out and inside of that 21 feet is going to be bad news for the bad guy in short order if he refuses to drop the knife.

Look for the Calibre Press Street Survival courses. That is where I saw it.
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#45 User is offline   Kaishaku 

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:40 AM

It's amazing how many eternities it can take to draw one's gun when it's needed. I've learned
1. Once you realize lethal force may be necessary you should have already drawn two seconds ago
2. I'm glad I'm not a police officer, because I don't have nearly enough balls to do that job.
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