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a great example of self defense Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 09:48 PM

sorry. video was deleted from youtube before I could even finish the post. yoink.

it was of 5x kickboxing world champion, moonlighting as a bouncer, complete humiliating a large irrate club goer with 'verbal skillz'. oh well.

This post has been edited by bythesea: 29 January 2011 - 09:50 PM

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#2 User is offline   Linds 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:03 PM

Was this it? http://www.bullshido...tube&tubeid=444
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#3 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:43 PM

View PostLinds, on 29 January 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:



Yes. Thank you.

Oh, also: WARNING, contains foul, and violent language.

It reminded me that in a self defense context, training in something like judo or kickboxing, means that we become accustomed to emotions, randomness, and sometimes dread. We experience discomfort on a regular basis. It allows us to 'stay above the fray' and keep our minds working. To me, that's the best aspect of judo training (or any contact combat training): that it teaches you how to keep your mind working on solutions to problems, even in times of distress.

Look at the irate club goer. He is basically a cauldron of emotions, chemicals, and threat. Like a boiling cauldron, he is dangerous, but lacks focus -- his mind is stuck on bluster on anger. The bouncer's mind is stuck on assessing threat, looking for weaknesses, preparing possible solutions, thinking which one is best. As a kickboxing champion, that bouncer probably has experienced more physical pain than most of us can imagine. The irate man, probably hasn't felt much pain -- he's too busy causing it. The bouncer, though physically smaller, seems to 'rise above' the situation.

This post has been edited by bythesea: 29 January 2011 - 10:44 PM

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#4 User is offline   JudoMojo 

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:44 PM

The german kickboxer guy who threatens to get his brother? Yeah I love that vid, well done bouncer :big grin:
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#5 User is offline   GammaPoint 

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:37 PM

Nice video.
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#6 User is offline   Bumon 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 02:35 PM

WARNING, constructive criticism, and food for thought...

View Postbythesea, on 30 January 2011 - 07:43 AM, said:

...that's the best aspect of judo training (or any contact combat training):...


Sorry, gotta stop you right here. "Combat training"??? Seriously?

I am no Judo expert, but I very much doubt that "Combat" was on Kano's mind when he created Judo. Apart from that,in Judo you do not kick, punch, bite, headbutt, fishhook, etc. Neither are you trained to defend against street brawling/fighting and especially not "combat" (whatever definition you want to give to "combat", it comes down to killing, unarmed or armed). I would have jerked my head already if you would have mentioned self-defense, but "combat training". Again are you serious?

To clear up a few things and put them in perspective:

This is not an incident that was taped by a private person (e.g. cellphone). This clip which is shown here is part of a German TV documentary about "Bouncers". A clear copyright violation and infringement, and should not be on youtube in the first place. So, first of all we do not know if this is real at all. As many "incidents" in documentaries or "reality TV" are often staged, provoked or just completely fake.

Next, just for the facts, the "guy", is not a "just" a bouncer. He is the head and CEO of a major Security company in the German capital. He has a concealed carry permit and is "packing" by the way, he has a Glock strapped to his lower back (there is even a youtube clip available, that mentions it and shows him putting it on...). If the "bad guy" (which appears to be a headbanger) is for real and as he apparently recognized him by his name would be aware of these facts and think twice about starting any trouble (if he knows his big brother or not...).

Another point, which is so simple, it hurts to even mention it. Do any of us know, HOW MANY bouncers and security detail members, lined up in the "blind spot of the camera", but in clear sight of this "agitated person"?

I do not want to destroy anybodies fantasy world, but the term "combat" should be left for soldiers, gov. paramilitary operatives and killers. Self Defense and Defense Tactics belong generally to security and LE (or civilians in danger). Judo is for Judoka...
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#7 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 02:55 PM

View PostBumon, on 22 February 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

WARNING, constructive criticism, and food for thought...



Sorry, gotta stop you right here. "Combat training"??? Seriously?

I am no Judo expert, but I very much doubt that "Combat" was on Kano's mind when he created Judo. Apart from that,in Judo you do not kick, punch, bite, headbutt, fishhook, etc. Neither are you trained to defend against street brawling/fighting and especially not "combat" (whatever definition you want to give to "combat", it comes down to killing, unarmed or armed). I would have jerked my head already if you would have mentioned self-defense, but "combat training". Again are you serious?

To clear up a few things and put them in perspective:

This is not an incident that was taped by a private person (e.g. cellphone). This clip which is shown here is part of a German TV documentary about "Bouncers". A clear copyright violation and infringement, and should not be on youtube in the first place. So, first of all we do not know if this is real at all. As many "incidents" in documentaries or "reality TV" are often staged, provoked or just completely fake.

Next, just for the facts, the "guy", is not a "just" a bouncer. He is the head and CEO of a major Security company in the German capital. He has a concealed carry permit and is "packing" by the way, he has a Glock strapped to his lower back (there is even a youtube clip available, that mentions it and shows him putting it on...). If the "bad guy" (which appears to be a headbanger) is for real and as he apparently recognized him by his name would be aware of these facts and think twice about starting any trouble (if he knows his big brother or not...).

Another point, which is so simple, it hurts to even mention it. Do any of us know, HOW MANY bouncers and security detail members, lined up in the "blind spot of the camera", but in clear sight of this "agitated person"?

I do not want to destroy anybodies fantasy world, but the term "combat" should be left for soldiers, gov. paramilitary operatives and killers. Self Defense and Defense Tactics belong generally to security and LE (or civilians in danger). Judo is for Judoka...


Before you go crazy, first, check the dictionary for 'combat'. It does not automatically imply a fight to the death. Have you never met someone who was 'combative'? Combat has many meanings, not just the obvious one you latched on to.

Second. I suggest you look up someone of my posts in threads related to self defense before you make even more a fool of yourself.

cheers.
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#8 User is offline   SODO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 02:57 PM

Hi Bumon,

I agree with most of what you say except

Quote

He has a concealed carry permit and is "packing" by the way,


Except for police and gov agencies nobody gets to carry a concealed weapon in Germany :rolleyes:

I believe this was from an RTL reality show, which means you can give it as much credibility as "The National Enquirer" :big grin:


atb

sodo

This post has been edited by SODO: 22 February 2011 - 02:58 PM

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#9 User is offline   Bumon 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:46 PM

View Postbythesea, on 22 February 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

Before you go crazy,...


I am not going crazy, neither am I am on medication nor off medication, my opinion is simply that you don't know what you are talking about. As simple as that.

View Postbythesea, on 22 February 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

... first, check the dictionary for 'combat'. It does not automatically imply a fight to the death. Have you never met someone who was 'combative'? Combat has many meanings, not just the obvious one you latched on to.


Being "combative" and being in "combat" are two totally different things (gee, and I am not even a native English speaker). Lots of soccer players push, punch or yank hair (male or female...). Are they combative? Sure they are, are they in "Combat"?, hell no. Please respect the armed forces, e.g. the women and men that patrol downtown Baghdad or Kabul for example. Apples and Oranges, who are you trying to kid?

View Postbythesea, on 22 February 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

Second. I suggest you look up someone of my posts in threads related to self defense before you make even more a fool of yourself.


To be honest, I do not believe I make a fool of my self (gee, wasn't there already a STAFF member agreeing with me..?), apart from that, I think it is silly of you, pounding on your position on this forum or how many times you posted. I won't bother nor do I care what you have posted, or what your position or status on this board is, I judge and evaluate you on each and every content that you post. And I do not see anything wrong with that!

This post has been edited by Bumon: 22 February 2011 - 03:48 PM

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#10 User is offline   Bumon 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:06 PM

View PostSODO, on 22 February 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

Hi Bumon,

I agree with most of what you say except


Thank you very much, I appreciate this from a forum staff member.

View PostSODO, on 22 February 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

Except for police and gov agencies nobody gets to carry a concealed weapon in Germany :rolleyes:


OK, YOU are WRONG ! ! ! (for some reason I believe, that you can accept and conced to this, not like staff member "bythesea"...

Quote

Firearms carry permits entitle licensees to publicly carry legally owned weapons, loaded in a concealed or non-concealed manner. A mandatory legal and safety class and shooting proficiency tests are required to obtain such a permit. Carry permits are usually only issued to persons with a particular need for carrying a firearm. This includes licensed hunters, law-enforcement officers, security personnel and persons living under a raised threat-level like celebrities and politicians.


Check it here:

Concealed Carry Permits in Germany

@Sodo,

if that is still not good enough for you, I would be more than happy to show the German statutes...

Just let me know.
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#11 User is offline   silverjudo 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:12 PM

Bumon, referring to judo, boxing, wrestling, muay tai,... as 'combat sports' is very common terminology. Maybe 'combat training' conjures ideas of crawling through mud on military obstacle courses, but 'training' is what you do for 'sports', so it's not a far stretch that combat sports and combat training could be interchanged.

The reason Bythesea mentioned his previous posts, is because this one is basically a follow up to the 'Judo as self defense?' thread where he argues that judo is possibly not even a martial art, since the purpose of judo is more for physical or moral education, than it is as a self-defense art.
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#12 User is offline   bythesea 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:18 PM

View PostBumon, on 22 February 2011 - 07:46 AM, said:

To be honest, I do not believe I make a fool of my self (gee, wasn't there already a STAFF member agreeing with me..?), apart from that, I think it is silly of you, pounding on your position on this forum or how many times you posted. I won't bother nor do I care what you have posted, or what your position or status on this board is, I judge and evaluate you on each and every content that you post. And I do not see anything wrong with that!


Ahh, but you don't understand. The reason you are making a fool of yourself is because you are arguing with me, but our opinion is exactly the same. Here's a quote since you are too busy trolling to do a search:

View Postbythesea, on 18 February 2011 - 07:03 AM, said:

Not really. I'm trying to draw some kind of clear delineation between two groups of physical activities. The first group is sport / physical education. The second group is self defense / martial arts / deadly arts.

Martial means war. War implies death. Martial arts study fighting to the death, whether that be your intent, or the intent of an attacker (in the case of self defense where you may only want to incapacitate, but the attacker may be deadly). So, clearly, self defense, which deals with issues of life and death, also belongs in this first category.

Martial arts train you to fight to the death. Judo trains you to fight to the life.

What we learn in judo absolutely trains us for danger. What we learn can be applied to self defense. Judo can be extended for more deadly combat, but it is designed to be a SUBSET of martial arts. Kano sensei PRUNED martial arts down, as well as changed the goal, purpose and application. There are many things we do in judo that simply make NO SENSE in a martial situation. There many things we do in judo which make us superior to the 'average' untrained person -- I mean after all, we do train in a physical activity DERIVED from martial arts, no?



Absolutely. Judo is fantastic as a skills base for many potentially dangerous situations: from an attacker in a dark alley, to being hit by a car for that matter. In fact, by removing the deadly potential of jujutsu, Kano sensei unleashed greater potential. We as judoka, because we have made a safe form of combat training, can experience extremely high performance and dynamism in our training. We can push each other hard, and by doing so, become hardened. Let's face it, judoka are tough.

Let's see: we are physically tough, mentally tough, disciplined, physical, accustomed and tuned for lighting fast reaction time, and exceptional balance, and spatial awareness. That's a pretty good list of skills, and certainly applies to self defense, but also many other spheres of our day to day life.

However, as wonderful as that is, it is NOT war training. A lot of people here get their hackles up about that. They have a lot vested in judo, and feel a lot of macho pride about it. Let's be real: a lot of people begin judo thinking: "I need to learn how to fight." So, when someone comes along and says: "Hey, BTW, that's not martial art." They get super defensive. I think if you look at Kano sensei's ideas, and the actions he took, it's clear that judo is not an art of war, or deadly fighting. Judo is meta. Judo is an art of living. It just so happens, we judoka live by 'fighting'.

If anyone ever mistake judo as a martial art, I ask them to talk to a military man who has seen close combat. There is no rei there. There are no rules. There is nothing akin to what we train for. Nothing. In a way, it's sort of disrespectful to conflate judo training with true martial training. We are not warriors. We have adopted their ETHOS. But do not kid yourself, what we do in judo has nothing to do with what those men and women who have faced death on the battlefield. What they do is WAY beyond what we do. They make the ultimate risk and sacrifice. We have special cemeteries for these warriors. We have special holidays to remember their sacrifices. Let's never confuse ourselves with those people.

This post has been edited by bythesea: 22 February 2011 - 04:56 PM

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#13 User is offline   Bumon 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:31 PM

View Postsilverjudo, on 23 February 2011 - 01:12 AM, said:

Bumon, referring to judo, boxing, wrestling, muay tai,... as 'combat sports' is very common terminology. Maybe 'combat training' conjures ideas of crawling through mud on military obstacle courses, but 'training' is what you do for 'sports', so it's not a far stretch that combat sports and combat training could be interchanged.


@silverjudo,

thank you for your intervention. "Common" terminology, as regarding to "combat arts"...? Hmmm, honestly I don't think there are combat sports. Can you be "combative" in a sport? Sure, but still they are sports... Combat is about killing and winning a confrontation...
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#14 User is offline   silverjudo 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:55 PM

View PostBumon, on 22 February 2011 - 04:31 PM, said:

@silverjudo,

thank you for your intervention. "Common" terminology, as regarding to "combat arts"...? Hmmm, honestly I don't think there are combat sports. Can you be "combative" in a sport? Sure, but still they are sports... Combat is about killing and winning a confrontation...


I see where this is going, but I'll take the bait again. Google 'combat sports' and you'll see that many people refer to martial arts with competitions as combat sports. My point wasn't that I view it that way, or that anyone should, I was just saying that's how many people label judo. If you want to see what people on here have to say about what is considered a 'sport', 'martial art' or 'combat sport', use the search function on the webpage, because you're not the first to try defining it.
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#15 User is offline   SODO 

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:55 PM

Hi Bumon

Quote

OK, YOU are WRONG ! ! ! (for some reason I believe, that you can accept and conced to this, not like staff member "bythesea"...



Check it here:

Concealed Carry Permits in Germany


I would not believe all you read in Wiki :big grin: It is possible to get a "waffenschein" but the restrictions on carry a concealed and loaded weapon are restricted in §42, WaffG

Quote

§ 42 Verbot des Führens von Waffen bei öffentlichen Veranstaltungen
(1) Wer an öffentlichen Vergnügungen, Volksfesten, Sportveranstaltungen, Messen, Ausstellungen, Märkten oder ähnlichen öffentlichen Veranstaltungen teilnimmt, darf keine Waffen im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 2 führen.
(2) Die zuständige Behörde kann allgemein oder für den Einzelfall Ausnahmen von Absatz 1 zulassen, wenn

1.
der Antragsteller die erforderliche Zuverlässigkeit (§ 5) und persönliche Eignung (§ 6) besitzt,

Quote

2.
der Antragsteller nachgewiesen hat, dass er auf Waffen bei der öffentlichen Veranstaltung nicht verzichten kann, und
3.
eine Gefahr für die öffentliche Sicherheit oder Ordnung nicht zu besorgen ist.


(3) Unbeschadet des § 38 muss der nach Absatz 2 Berechtigte auch den Ausnahmebescheid mit sich führen und auf Verlangen zur Prüfung aushändigen.
(4) Die Absätze 1 bis 3 sind nicht anzuwenden

1.
auf die Mitwirkenden an Theateraufführungen und diesen gleich zu achtenden Vorführungen, wenn zu diesem Zweck ungeladene oder mit Kartuschenmunition geladene Schusswaffen oder Waffen im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 2 Nr. 2 geführt werden,
2.
auf das Schießen in Schießstätten (§ 27),
3.
soweit eine Schießerlaubnis nach § 10 Abs. 5 vorliegt,
4.
auf das gewerbliche Ausstellen der in Absatz 1 genannten Waffen auf Messen und Ausstellungen.

(5) Die Landesregierungen werden ermächtigt, durch Rechtsverordnung vorzusehen, dass das Führen von Waffen im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 2 auf bestimmten öffentlichen Straßen, Wegen oder Plätzen allgemein oder im Einzelfall verboten oder beschränkt werden kann, soweit an dem jeweiligen Ort wiederholt

1.
Straftaten unter Einsatz von Waffen oder
2.
Raubdelikte, Körperverletzungsdelikte, Bedrohungen, Nötigungen, Sexualdelikte, Freiheitsberaubungen oder Straftaten gegen das Leben

begangen worden sind und Tatsachen die Annahme rechtfertigen, dass auch künftig mit der Begehung solcher Straftaten zu rechnen ist. In der Rechtsverordnung nach Satz 1 soll bestimmt werden, dass die zuständige Behörde allgemein oder für den Einzelfall Ausnahmen insbesondere für Inhaber waffenrechtlicher Erlaubnisse, Anwohner und Gewerbetreibende zulassen kann, soweit eine Gefährdung der öffentlichen Sicherheit nicht zu besorgen ist. Im Falle des Satzes 2 gilt Absatz 3 entsprechend. Die Landesregierungen können ihre Befugnis nach Satz 1 in Verbindung mit Satz 2 durch Rechtsverordnung auf die zuständige oberste Landesbehörde übertragen; diese kann die Befugnis durch Rechtsverordnung weiter übertragen
.

Which makes it almost impossble to carry a loaded hand weapon in public unless you are a "Beamter" or in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances and making a reality show for RTL may be exceptional but it is not what is meant by the law :big grin:

This Guy may have a "Waffenschein" but I doubt very much that he would get a "Ausnahmegenehmigung" for a job as a bouncer at a night club.



Quote

if that is still not good enough for you, I would be more than happy to show the German statutes...

Just let me know.


I have them http://www.gesetze-i...R397010002.html :big grin:

atb

sodo

This post has been edited by SODO: 22 February 2011 - 04:58 PM

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I'm a drunk, we go to parties.
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