[Dib]

judotalk, on Feb 10 2010, 11:30 AM, said:

In an interview with Scott McCarthy, published January edition of the BJA magazine Matside, it is stated a Sport England Active Survey estimates there are 120,000 who practise judo.

The interview states that 40,000 are BJA members.

This does not stack up with official BJA figures.

The BJA 2008/2009 annual report shows memberships at 27,769. FACT.

This confirms, according to Sport England figures, that 77% of the judo population remain in groups and organisations independent of the NGB.

This is a truncated post from the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic which I have copied to a new topic to avoid hijacking the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic.

In another topic recently (which embarrassingly I can't now find) I recall someone querying another poster's assertion that there are hundreds of independent clubs in the UK.

Looking at the above it appears that there are an estimated 92,000 judoka who are not members of the BJA. Where are these people and what organisations do they practice with? OK, the BJC is a major player (I can't find membership stats unfortunately) but, even so, I don't believe that BJC is even as big as, let alone bigger than, the BJA.

Anyone out there in the UK like to post details of their organisation? If there is some fallacy in my thinking please let me know.

[PointyShinyBurning]

'Sport England Figures' seem to suggest there are about 22,000 active Judoka in the UK (http://www.sportengland.org/research/sport_facts/idoc.ashx?docid=082b4835-1c1c-4ae0-85e3-e02809f94226&version=1).

[judoka_uk]

Dib, on Feb 10 2010, 01:53 PM, said:

This is a truncated post from the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic which I have copied to a new topic to avoid hijacking the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic.

In another topic recently (which embarrassingly I can't now find) I recall someone querying another poster's assertion that there are hundreds of independent clubs in the UK.

Looking at the above it appears that there are an estimated 92,000 judoka who are not members of the BJA. Where are these people and what organisations do they practice with? OK, the BJC is a major player (I can't find membership stats unfortunately) but, even so, I don't believe that BJC is even as big as, let alone bigger than, the BJA.

Anyone out there in the UK like to post details of their organisation? If there is some fallacy in my thinking please let me know.

I would doubt that there are that many people continually practicing Judo in the UK.

According to the BJA there are 866 clubs in the BJA with a total of 27,679 members.
Source BJA Annual report, 08-09, Appendix 1, p. 37-38.
http://www.britishju...Report08_09.pdf

The BJC has 152 clubs,
Source: BJC Club database, accessed 10/02/2010 at 14:45.
http://www.britishju...find_a_club.htm

I could find no information as to total membership of the BJC.

The AJA has 40 Judo clubs.
Source: AJA Find a Club website, accessed 10/02/2010 at 14:47

I could find no information as to the individual membership of the AJA.

If the BJA has 866 clubs with just shy of 30,000 members and the BJC only has 152 clubs and the AJA only 40. I find it highly unlikely that even adding the BJC and AJA memberships together that it would equal the BJA membership, most likely it would be significantly less. Assuming for the sake of argument that the BJC and AJA together have a membership, based on number of clubs, of one quarter of that of the BJA so around 7,500. So these three major Judo organisations together possibly have a membership of under 40,000.

Now obvisouly I'm speculating as to the memberships of the BJC and AJA, but based on number of clubs in comparison to the BJA I don't think my speculations are completely unreasonable. If my guesstimate of under 40,000 members in the BJA, BJC and AJA I think it highly unlikely that the total number of praticing Judoka in the UK is anywhere near 120,000. The numbers just seem far too unlikely.

As for the number of independent clubs and associatins, I think it is feasible that there could be 10s of non-aligned Judo organisations, but I doubt it is anywhere near 100.

[Macaitch]

There are, as everybody knows three sorts of liar: a liar, a damned liar and a statastician.

A few pointers:

You will need to be aware that as a CEO being interviewed in his own in-house magazine Mr McCarthy is pedalling a particular persepctive.

When the BJA give their figures, last time I looked it included all their affilates. That includes the AJA and the BJC, amongst others. So, for instance if they say they have 30,000 people, 7,000 of those are only affiliates through their BJC membership.

The listings on the website of the AJA and BJC are unlikely to be accurate. There are clubs that are run by BJC members and contain BJC people, but they do not actually affilate the club, because they see no value in it: new changes in rules will address this. Presumably that fact applies to the AJA too.

[takinabreak]

Just out of intrest,
are the affiliates of the bja included in the bja's on line dan grade register or is it only direct members listed there?

[PointyShinyBurning]

The highest number on the Sport England website that I can find is 56,000 people have done Judo at least once in the last year (from June 2009: (http://www.sportengland.org/research/sport_facts/idoc.ashx?docid=468882cc-5653-4352-8ab3-7991ded09163&version=2). Many of these will have a done a taster session or two and never joined any Judo organisation, I would imagine.

Conceivably 120,000 is the number in the UK who have done Judo at least once, ever, though I can't find a source for that claim. To conflate that with the current paid-up membership of the BJA and arrive at some vast silenced army is total nonsense.

This post has been edited by PointyShinyBurning: 10 February 2010 - 04:34 PM

[Dib]

PointyShinyBurning, on Feb 10 2010, 04:33 PM, said:

The highest number on the Sport England website that I can find is 56,000 people have done Judo at least once in the last year (from June 2009: (http://www.sportengland.org/research/sport_facts/idoc.ashx?docid=468882cc-5653-4352-8ab3-7991ded09163&version=2). Many of these will have a done a taster session or two and never joined any Judo organisation, I would imagine.

Conceivably 120,000 is the number in the UK who have done Judo at least once, ever, though I can't find a source for that claim. To conflate that with the current paid-up membership of the BJA and arrive at some vast silenced army is total nonsense.

56,000 is a lot different from 120,000 but makes more sense assuming the BJA membership figure is accurate. Even so, if the BJA figures include members of its affiliates (BJC and AJA) that means that the BJA (plus affiliate) members account for only half of all judoka who practiced judo at some point in 2009. There must be a lot of people who only try judo a few times before giving up (and who are therefore included in the Sport England figures but never get around to joining the BJA or affiliate organisation) but do they really account for anything approaching 28,000 odd?

[medo]

judoka_uk, on Feb 10 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

I would doubt that there are that many people continually practicing Judo in the UK.

As for the number of independent clubs and associatins, I think it is feasible that there could be 10s of non-aligned Judo organisations, but I doubt it is anywhere near 100.

Oh I would not be to suprised

Heres three associations that I know of within 20miles.

http://www.seishinbudo.co.uk/

http://www.kanazawabudo.com

http://www.bjc-mac.co.uk

We have six BJC clubs in our area and two BJA clubs. the above actually out number us.

[Tafftaz]

Dib, on Feb 10 2010, 01:53 PM, said:

This is a truncated post from the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic which I have copied to a new topic to avoid hijacking the "Save Independent Judo Campaign update" topic.

In another topic recently (which embarrassingly I can't now find) I recall someone querying another poster's assertion that there are hundreds of independent clubs in the UK.

Looking at the above it appears that there are an estimated 92,000 judoka who are not members of the BJA. Where are these people and what organisations do they practice with? OK, the BJC is a major player (I can't find membership stats unfortunately) but, even so, I don't believe that BJC is even as big as, let alone bigger than, the BJA.

Anyone out there in the UK like to post details of their organisation? If there is some fallacy in my thinking please let me know.

It was I who was querying another posters assertion that there are hundreds od independent organisations (not clubs) in the UK.
There could very well be a good number of them in Britain but I doubt very much that independents run into the hundreds.

[Macaitch]

takinabreak, on Feb 10 2010, 04:17 PM, said:

Just out of intrest,
are the affiliates of the bja included in the bja's on line dan grade register or is it only direct members listed there?

No the register only includes direct members.

Further to what others have been speculating, the BJA figures not only include AJA and BJC, but other affliates such as those from JudoScotland and the RAF Judo Association.

[SODO]

judoka_uk, on Feb 10 2010, 03:53 PM, said:

I would doubt that there are that many people continually practicing Judo in the UK.

According to the BJA there are 866 clubs in the BJA with a total of 27,679 members.
Source BJA Annual report, 08-09, Appendix 1, p. 37-38.
http://www.britishju...Report08_09.pdf

The BJC has 152 clubs,
Source: BJC Club database, accessed 10/02/2010 at 14:45.
http://www.britishju...find_a_club.htm

I could find no information as to total membership of the BJC.

The AJA has 40 Judo clubs.
Source: AJA Find a Club website, accessed 10/02/2010 at 14:47

I could find no information as to the individual membership of the AJA.

If the BJA has 866 clubs with just shy of 30,000 members and the BJC only has 152 clubs and the AJA only 40. I find it highly unlikely that even adding the BJC and AJA memberships together that it would equal the BJA membership, most likely it would be significantly less. Assuming for the sake of argument that the BJC and AJA together have a membership, based on number of clubs, of one quarter of that of the BJA so around 7,500. So these three major Judo organisations together possibly have a membership of under 40,000.

Now obvisouly I'm speculating as to the memberships of the BJC and AJA, but based on number of clubs in comparison to the BJA I don't think my speculations are completely unreasonable. If my guesstimate of under 40,000 members in the BJA, BJC and AJA I think it highly unlikely that the total number of praticing Judoka in the UK is anywhere near 120,000. The numbers just seem far too unlikely.

As for the number of independent clubs and associatins, I think it is feasible that there could be 10s of non-aligned Judo organisations, but I doubt it is anywhere near 100.

Your figure sound about right, but don't forget that there are many judoka and clubs that are members of more than one organisation.
There are possibly more than a hundred non aligned clubs but not associations.

atb

sodo

[SODO]

Hi PointyShinyBurning'

Quote

Conceivably 120,000 is the number in the UK who have done Judo at least once, ever, though I can't find a source for that claim. To conflate that with the current paid-up membership of the BJA and arrive at some vast silenced army is total nonsense.

120,000 would be a very low number for all the people in the UK that have ever done judo, judo has beeb around for slong time now.

atb
sodo