[Matt_Werk]

two simple sleeve grip breaks when in someone's trunk hold

submissions101 vid

if you have any others please share, if you know any grip breaks for standing, please share those too, or post vids of them

The issue of grip breaking and getting grips is not really discussed a lot, but is a very important. Afterall, you cannot grapple someone until you can grip them or hold them. I guess most people just power their way out, but why not use an energy saving tech. I hear aikido deals a lot with grip breaking. Anyone here ever train aikido? Does the judo curriculum have anything specific for grip breaking?

[PointyShinyBurning]

Like most things from Submissions 101, that video is pretty much total nonsense. No one is going to lie there death-gripping both sleeves with their guard closed, they would be transitioning to spider guard straight off. Even if they were dumb enough to do it, if you're postured up there's nothing to stop you gripping their sleeve with one hand and doing the standard guard-break with the other controlling both lapels.

In addition, as soon as you take your hands off their body to start fiddling about like in the second technique, anyone faintly competent is going to break your posture with their legs.

[loudenvier]

PointyShinyBurning, on Jan 27 2010, 08:29 AM, said:

Like most things from Submissions 101, that video is pretty much total nonsense. No one is going to lie there death-gripping both sleeves with their guard closed, they would be transitioning to spider guard straight off. Even if they were dumb enough to do it, if you're postured up there's nothing to stop you gripping their sleeve with one hand and doing the standard guard-break with the other controlling both lapels.

In addition, as soon as you take your hands off their body to start fiddling about like in the second technique, anyone faintly competent is going to break your posture with their legs.

I do not think this is nonsense at all. In this video they show the technique without a resisting uke. That is how every technique is shown or demonstrated. In the practical application it will differ, but the basics and the principles will be the same. What is shown here is one of the ways to free your arm from the opponent's control, I am used to apply that kind of movement in an almost instinctive way, so no one secures my arms... But if I was to demonstrate it, it would be very close to what this video shows.

Every move has a counter. Who will succeed, the technique or the counter, is a matter of individual skill.

[Milisim]

The post is called SIMPLE sleeve breaks.... because this site has a lot of new players who see this video and go "WOW! I think I can do that!" most new players are not thinking of popping into a spider guard and finishing with some sort of Neil Adams rolling Juji....

[PointyShinyBurning]

loudenvier, agreed that those grip releases work. What I'm saying is that the context in which they are demonstrated here i.e. inside an opponent's closed guard, they are things you will neither want, nor need, to do.

What Ari has done, as so often in his videos, is take some pretty standard gendai 'JJJ' techniques, thrown his black belt on and decided they apply directly to grappling.

[Dave R.]

PointyShinyBurning, on Jan 27 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

loudenvier, agreed that those grip releases work. What I'm saying is that the context in which they are demonstrated here i.e. inside an opponent's closed guard, they are things you will neither want, nor need, to do.

What Ari has done, as so often in his videos, is take some pretty standard gendai 'JJJ' techniques, thrown his black belt on and decided they apply directly to grappling.

He's a JJJ guy?

I agree with you and loudenvier and your respective points.

[loudenvier]

PointyShinyBurning, on Jan 27 2010, 03:10 PM, said:

loudenvier, agreed that those grip releases work. What I'm saying is that the context in which they are demonstrated here i.e. inside an opponent's closed guard, they are things you will neither want, nor need, to do.

I use those (and variations) grip releases from inside the closed guard all the time! And I also use them when I am the one doing the closed-guard when I want to free an arm to get it around "uke"s back... I believe that this is a very basic building block, so basic that I never thought about teaching them before...

[PointyShinyBurning]

Dave R., on Jan 27 2010, 07:55 PM, said:

He's a JJJ guy?

According to his web site (http://www.10thplanetjiujitsuvictoria.com/) he has black belts in Aikido, 'Daito ryu' and 'goshin jujitsu'. It's one of those he's wearing in all his videos, because in BJJ he's a blue belt and had no rank in 2008 when that video was made.


Google his name if you enjoy a good car wreck, the man is a charlatan of the highest and most annoying order.

[Dave R.]

PointyShinyBurning, on Jan 28 2010, 05:06 AM, said:

According to his web site (http://www.10thplanetjiujitsuvictoria.com/) he has black belts in Aikido, 'Daito ryu' and 'goshin jujitsu'. It's one of those he's wearing in all his videos, because in BJJ he's a blue belt and had no rank in 2008 when that video was made.
Google his name if you enjoy a good car wreck, the man is a charlatan of the highest and most annoying order.

I did about ten minutes ago. That is really interesting.

Look, I have no doubt he's much better on the ground than I am but like you mentioned in your earlier post the technique he demonstrated in this particular video is a little suspect. I've seen other videos of his that I think are great and then other ones where honestly I'm left scratching my head wondering if that would really work as demonstrated.

Now that I know his background a little better I think it's shameful to be wearing a black belt while wearing what most people accept to be a BJJ kimono. It is deliberately deceptive.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on something that I noticed on his bio page. He says he's a "10th Planet Jiu Jitsu" purple belt but a two-stripe blue belt in BJJ. It's my understanding that 10th Planet is Eddie Bravo and Eddie Bravo is a BJJ guy. Why do you think he makes the distinction? Is it simply because Eddie Bravo mostly does no-gi?

[PointyShinyBurning]

Dave R., on Jan 28 2010, 01:00 PM, said:

Perhaps you can enlighten me on something that I noticed on his bio page. He says he's a "10th Planet Jiu Jitsu" purple belt but a two-stripe blue belt in BJJ. It's my understanding that 10th Planet is Eddie Bravo and Eddie Bravo is a BJJ guy. Why do you think he makes the distinction? Is it simply because Eddie Bravo mostly does no-gi?

Bravo always says his ranks aren't in BJJ but in '10th Planet Jiu Jitsu' which doesn't include the gi. Most (not all) BJJ places won't rank people who aren't at a decent level in the gi.

Google 'Brandon Quick' for the credibility of Bravo's ranking system.

[Pseudonymous]

Most people who speak negatively of Submissions 101 don't understand the goal. They don't want to show tonnes of setups or anything like that. There are already tonnes of videos out there by more qualified people to do things like that. Ari's goal (and he has stated this explicitly) was to just start a sort of visual dictionary of techniques for people who wanted to just look up the technique and essentially say "oh, so that's what it looks like." If you don't criticize him based upon his goals, then I don't think your criticism is valid.

loudenvier, on Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM, said:

Every move has a counter. Who will succeed, the technique or the counter, is a matter of individual skill.

Even the X-guard?

[PointyShinyBurning]

Pseudonymous, on Jan 28 2010, 02:06 PM, said:

Ari's goal (and he has stated this explicitly) was to just start a sort of visual dictionary of techniques for people who wanted to just look up the technique and essentially say "oh, so that's what it looks like."

How come they're full of him giving instructions? How come he was coaching this same material for years with no rank? When did he start making this claim and do you have a link to it?

How come he didn't get someone decent to demo or put together a list from competent sources? How come he made up/half-arsed a lot of rubbish no decent grappling instructor would teach?

This post has been edited by PointyShinyBurning: 28 January 2010 - 02:16 PM