[Shindai Warrior]

Spanish Nationals 2010- Matsumoto(JPN) Karakas(Hun) here is a match where the referee actually allowed up to 25 seconds of ne waza action before calling matte. Sure it's technically allowed but when was the last time you actually saw it?

Matsumoto is relentless, a serious ne waza fighter. So someone is still teaching that in Japan. Her last foray de-turtling Karakas is slick, leading directly into kami-shiho gatame.

http://www.youtube.c.../53/l3Pq6GIqYgI

[Blacksmith]

Shindai Warrior, on Jan 27 2010, 12:43 AM, said:

Spanish Nationals 2010- Matsumoto(JPN) Karakas(Hun) here is a match where the referee actually allowed up to 25 seconds of ne waza action before calling matte. Sure it's technically allowed but when was the last time you actually saw it?

Matsumoto is relentless, a serious ne waza fighter. So someone is still teaching that in Japan. Her last foray de-turtling Karakas is slick, leading directly into kami-shiho gatame.

http://www.youtube.c.../53/l3Pq6GIqYgI

Thanks for posting - good to see a little newaza allowed. Relentless about sums it up.

[Michael Hanwell]

Shindai Warrior, on Jan 27 2010, 05:43 AM, said:

Spanish Nationals 2010- Matsumoto(JPN) Karakas(Hun) here is a match where the referee actually allowed up to 25 seconds of ne waza action before calling matte. Sure it's technically allowed but when was the last time you actually saw it?

Dear Shindai Warrior,

Thank you for posting the video.

I'm not sure why you have referred to this under the heading Spanish Nationals 2010. Never mind.

Long exchanges of ne waza are not as uncommon as you suggest. Indeed, several examples of Karakas (HUN) whom you mention above can be found on the web. In addition to Matsumoto, there are a number of other Japanese women (including Fukumi, the Ueno sisters and Tokuhisa all from the Sugimoto group) who demonstrate a high level of ne waza skill. There are also several IJF referees (Amano, Cortes, Bode and Hnidka come to mind) whom I know are keen to see and encourage high quality ne waza exchanges.

[M@sato]

I'm relatively new to Judo, so can someone please explain what happened near the end? Why did Karakas stay down for so long? Was she getting choked out or just pinned?

[Michael Hanwell]

M@sato, on Jan 27 2010, 10:40 AM, said:

I'm relatively new to Judo, so can someone please explain what happened near the end? Why did Karakas stay down for so long? Was she getting choked out or just pinned?

Just pinned. A little hurt pride at having lost again to Matsumoto. Karakas managed to defeat her only once out of four attempts last year. However, her win was in the world championship bronze medal match for which I'm sure Karakas would not swap anything.

[ThePieman]

Do you think it is possible that a referee may be swayed by a judokas reputation? As in, A Judoka has a reputation as an excellent ne waza technician, the referee may wait just a bit longer to see what materialises?

[Slindsay]

Hmm, in one of my first tournaments I got a shido for attacking the turtle by putting my hooks in and then going directly backwards because it endangered my opponents spine, I was warned that in the future I should take my opponent to the side slightly if I wanted to avoid the penalty. Now to me it looks like Matsumoto does almost the same thing in the clip that I did br driving her opponent directly backwards out of the turtle which makes me wonder if I shouldn't have been penalised, if fhse should or if there is some distinction between the two I don't understand?

[M@sato]

Michael Hanwell, on Jan 27 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

Just pinned. A little hurt pride at having lost again to Matsumoto. Karakas managed to defeat her only once out of four attempts last year. However, her win was in the world championship bronze medal match for which I'm sure Karakas would not swap anything.

Thanks for that explanation mate! As a Judo n00b I don't recognize a lot of the techniques, or have trouble differentiating between them...but hopefully that'll improve in time.

[Kyo'udai]

Wasn't this an IJF initiative
Were referees were instructed a little under 12 months ago to allow ne waza to continue for an extended period ( up to 25 seconds) before calling mate if no advantage was gained by either player …

[Dutch]

Would have been greater if both contestants were doing ne waza.

[Still learning]

Kyo'udai, on Jan 27 2010, 01:45 PM, said:

Wasn't this an IJF initiative
Were referees were instructed a little under 12 months ago to allow ne waza to continue for an extended period ( up to 25 seconds) before calling mate if no advantage was gained by either player …

GB World cup 2009

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=pzUSjmeaVYE

[Richard Riehle]

Shindai Warrior, on Jan 26 2010, 09:43 PM, said:

Matsumoto is relentless, a serious ne waza fighter. So someone is still teaching that in Japan. Her last foray de-turtling Karakas is slick, leading directly into kami-shiho gatame.

Not sure why you would say that about teaching ne-waza in Japan. Of course they are teaching it; and training in it. Every year when I go to Kodokan, there are always some people who want to do ne-waza randori, there are classes in ne-waza, and one of my friends, a ne-waza specialist, drills me on what he taught me the previous year to make sure I remembered what I was supposed to have learned. Yes, they are still teaching ne-waza in Japan!