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Video of my Goshin Jutsu at 2009 USA Judo Nationals Would be interested in any feedback or comments Rate Topic: -----

#16 User is offline   NBK 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 04:11 AM

Overall I actually like it better.

Some of the attacks, rear hug, etc., look like you expect to get your butt kicked. Uke is attacking and expects to defeat tori, and should show that spirit, I reckon. The kicks look tentative.

I've been taught that uke's step back is one step, not a double as you do in a couple of places. One step back / pivot / step out other foot. Hard to describe.

Again the furioroshi looks distinctly non-budo.

Great fun! How'd you do?


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#17 User is offline   Blind Dog 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 05:42 AM

View PostNBK, on Jun 27 2009, 11:11 PM, said:

Overall I actually like it better.
Great fun! How'd you do?
We got Gold.
I agree, in this one I'm just asleep and not on drugs, but it's a better example of our average performance. Mainly, most of the attacks are better because he's not worried about hurting me, so the weak attacks in this one are the ones we really need work on. We are working on the strikes and kicks, I do test him from time2time and take one for the team.

I like what you said about the ma-ai! Sometimes I feel like I should punch him before he starts his attack because he's too close/crowded (I have issues with the very 1st techniques in every section. & especially the 1st tanto & jo waza). We actually addressed that in our last practice (No, I didn't kill him, that was just theatrics).
We did learn lots of new stuff the day before we competed at Nationals at the clinic, but we mutually decided not to incorperate new information into that performance, cuz my brain wuz on drugs, and we knew it would take time to fix. It still needs lots o' work. Thanks for the great feedback, Sensei.

How do you feel about doing a weapon technique and not disarming uke. I have a BIG issue with it but have been told specificallty not to do it except where designated. I was told by a teacher, who's opinion I value highly in this arena, once you acquire the hand holding the weapon do not let go til you own that weapon. If you throw uke or they submit/tap, always take the weapon. Always! I agree, so why not in kata?

CK,
I know you're just trying to save yourself from writing another "book" entitled Everything wrong with your Goshin Jutsu no Kobudo Waza, but I appreciate the direction you put us in. It's good to know which areas need the most work and we can focus on that. Thanks for taking the time to watch, read our threads and look past my overuse of emoticons. They just have some really kool ones here!
:bleh: :whistle:

This post has been edited by Blind Dog: 28 June 2009 - 06:27 AM

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#18 User is offline   NBK 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 06:39 AM

I feel that if you participate in kata competitions, you do what the kata says, or plan on losing. Period.

If you're exploring self-defense, self-defend.

There are many elements that have crept into the kata that make for reasonable practice, and no huge discomfort for uke, but are not legitimate in absolute terms; I will not go into them, but most judoka do not practice these very uncomfortable holds. Wakigatame for real is pretty nasty if you don't practice holds that attack your elblow.

Someday I'd like to see the goshinjutsu at your dojo. Maybe in Aug I'll visit Dallas; should be nice and cool by then.


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#19 User is offline   Theodore 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 11:56 AM

View PostNBK, on Jun 28 2009, 01:39 AM, said:

I feel that if you participate in kata competitions, you do what the kata says, or plan on losing. Period.

If you're exploring self-defense, self-defend.

There are many elements that have crept into the kata that make for reasonable practice, and no huge discomfort for uke, but are not legitimate in absolute terms; I will not go into them, but most judoka do not practice these very uncomfortable holds. Wakigatame for real is pretty nasty if you don't practice holds that attack your elblow.

Someday I'd like to see the goshinjutsu at your dojo. Maybe in Aug I'll visit Dallas; should be nice and cool by then.


Thank you for your feedback. August should be lovely weather, we are at 100F already and by August who know what it will be.

Yes, we came in 1st at the State Championships, but the competition is that that big for the Kata in Texas, there is only one other teem that regularily competes in it and we have now beat them 6 times in a row. We have to go to the National level events to have good high level competition in this Kata.

The State Championship was two months before the Nationals and we were in better form since we did not have any injuries to get in the way, but we had not yet learned some of the finer corrections in our techniques that we got at a clinic during the time between the two competitions.

Regards,
Theodore
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#20 User is offline   Taigyo 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 01:41 PM

Theodore is way to nice............
Need to work on making the attacks focused, on target, and delivered with a realistic amount of force. Tto he tempo of the attack sets the tempo of the defense, and so on. In reality uke is the one running the show in the kata (why the senior person is traditionally preferred for that role).
Now, it isn't easy to deliver a real attack at your training buddy, but after a few of the exchanges here maybe easier than I thought. So to build a bit of confidence in uke you could try a few training aids, a boxing glove on the punches, substitute a golf bag tube for the stick, and a rubber (I used high density foam rubber knife). Uke should then really try to hit tori, in fact perhaps he should land a couple of shots (not too hard) to see what it feels like and form the image in his mind.
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#21 User is offline   TomasCruz 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 02:37 PM

View PostBlind Dog, on Jun 27 2009, 11:18 PM, said:

Tom,
I also do Aikido and our system has a Goshin Jutsu Kata fashioned after the Kodokan Judo Kata. That's why I really wanted to learn this Kata. Our Aikigoshin Jutsu is done more realisticly and more flowing from one technique to the next as the zanshin escalates with the attacks.

In our Aikido geiko, we test our uke 1 outta 10 times they attack with Shomen ate. Uke's job is to push Tori on their arse EVERY TIME! At this point in my martial practice, I feel my Aikido kata is way more realistic than my Judo Kata.

I don't care that you don't do Judo or have never seen the Kata before. The trained eye sees alot and you may see things that trained Judoka miss because of famialrity. Bill Parker Sensei is a Kuzshi expert and has done many years of study in just the kuzushi without regard for technique. He is helping us with our Ju no Kata and he knows very little about the kata itself, but he is pointing out places where we loose the "Ju". It has improved our flow and execution by leaps and bounds. I want this kata to look like Aikido, Ju no kata also! It is my ultimate goal, to me there is a thin grey line blending the two arts. So, thank you for leaving your comments even though you felt unqualified.


Yes, there should be more flow in the execution of tehniques. Watching this kata made me think "hey, this is just like Aikido! Only stiff somehow..." Later I realised it's probably mostly due to injury, especially since you practice Aikido yourself.

I deeply respect Judo, and from what I've seen on utube old-school mastes like Mifune do, yes, "there is a thin grey line blending the two arts.". It's also my goal, to be in that line. There's not much point for me to train Judo in Serbia, since it's very sport/shiai oriented (so I've heard), and if you don't start doing it in the age of 6-7, nobody's gonna want to bother with you. I, being 32 yo, not very athletic and with no previous extensive expirience in martial arts, just don't fit in their concept :sadsmiley: . But I plan on training BJJ later, when I'm better in Aikido than now, and maybe some Karate or other striking art too. Budo is Budo.
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#22 User is offline   Blind Dog 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 03:20 PM

View PostNBK, on Jun 28 2009, 01:39 AM, said:

Maybe in Aug I'll visit Dallas; should be nice and cool by then.
WoW, that will be awesome! We have a competition in August, but would love to have you visit. We have a dormitory if you need a place or you are welcome at my house. Mi casa su casa (Texican for "You can stay at my house").

Thank you, Sensei.
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#23 User is offline   girl fighter 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 06:11 PM

Thank-you for the post; I really enjoyed it.

Being of a much lower rank I feel it would be impolite to correct you on what I believe were incorrect. :unsure: This is my favourite Kata followed by Ju. :rolleyes:
However I do suggest you get hold of the latest rule changes as I found them beneficial; : :wacko: ie for Naname-tsuki(last of the knife attacks) you now pat the mat twice before tori takes the knife from you.

I've been competing at this Kata for four years now. I love it. God willing my partner and I will be coming to America next year for the international Tournament. Hope to see you there. :glass) :rambo:

I look forward to more videos
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#24 User is offline   dave belgium 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 06:41 PM

it's the first time i've seen this kata, and i find it very impressive. verry nice performance.next seeson i'm think i'm going to try it also. together with nage no kata and juno kata. perhaps an extra to get my black belt...
za zen Rei
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#25 User is offline   Theodore 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 07:07 PM

View Postdave belgium, on Jun 28 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

it's the first time i've seen this kata, and i find it very impressive. verry nice performance.next seeson i'm think i'm going to try it also. together with nage no kata and juno kata. perhaps an extra to get my black belt...


View Postgirl fighter, on Jun 28 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

Thank-you for the post; I really enjoyed it.Being of a much lower rank I feel it would be impolite to correct you on what I believe were incorrect. :unsure: This is my favourite Kata followed by Ju. :rolleyes: However I do suggest you get hold of the latest rule changes as I found them beneficial; : :wacko: ie for Naname-tsuki(last of the knife attacks) you now pat the mat twice before tori takes the knife from you.I've been competing at this Kata for four years now. I love it. God willing my partner and I will be coming to America next year for the international Tournament. Hope to see you there. :glass) :rambo: I look forward to more videos


Can you let me know which one you thought looked better, more real. The one from the Nationals or the State Championship.

Regards,
Theodore

This post has been edited by Theodore: 28 June 2009 - 07:10 PM

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#26 User is offline   Blind Dog 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 11:15 PM

View PostTheodore, on Jun 28 2009, 02:07 PM, said:

Can you let me know which one you thought looked better, more real. The one from the Nationals or the State Championship.

Regards,
Theodore
That's a no brainer... :P ;wry)

girlfighter,
You may offer any comments you like without hesitation, we want ALL feedback! We do have the new rule changes and we are aware of the tap-tap before disarming. The camera angle on the Presidents Cup version kinda hid it and I don't remember if we were aware at the State Championships. What else did you notice, if you been doing this 4 years, you have to know something... Feel free to let'er rip! I'll only stay mad for 3 minutes, I have ADHD.
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#27 User is offline   NBK 

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 11:31 PM

The old instructions left the knife hand vertical - and finally someone sussed out that someone was going to put a wooden knife through their eyesocket someday. So, now it's flat, hand palm down, so the fingernails smack into the mat. Much safer, but somewhat harder on the hand to take the front fall.

If tori really launches you, you don't want to have a short front fall, your face will be the next thing to hit.


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#28 User is offline   girl fighter 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:16 AM

:blush:

View PostTheodore, on Jun 28 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

Can you let me know which one you thought looked better, more real. The one from the Nationals or the State Championship.

Regards,
Theodore


I'm a bit hesitant to comment as generally I thought your performance was good; and it's hard to see on the video; as you have corrected me (ie the tap), However I felt it lacked "spirit"; I wasn't completely convinced that you were trying to harm your tori.... But I think this of most people even some of the world champions. (the best comment I got back from doing a Gosh was "that was a gutsy performance; everyone just stopped to watch".......... ) I know the overall look is worth 10 points, but it could be the difference from a medal or not.

I would get a coach to look at the angles of Uk when tapping from arm locks etc ie just go with tori instead of fighting him. This is something I had to work on.

In the first of the stick attacks(Furi-age) I have to look up the names!; It's hard to tell from the video but I don't think tori really pushed his head back enough from under his chin. My first tori was the same.
In the second attack there is three attacks to uk on the head; (fist. diagonal strike then open hand push); I think your tori only did two. My partner is a fifth dan and brilliant; she still sometimes stuffs that bit up!

In the gun attacks I haven't seen the double tap and don't mind it (as you are looking for the wallet) I don't know why when Tori takes control of the weapons he holds them so high? I'll ask my head coach about that one... In the last of the gun attacks I like to see tori point the gun at Uke. (Nothing in the rules but its the overall look)

I didn't like Tori adjusting his gee so much it was distracting and I didn't feel its was needed his stance at the end looked as though he was angled (stomach sticking out); I think it may have been the camera angle or his injury.

Well done any way I know how hard it is to compete with injury, I did it soon after a full ACL knee reconstruction and still it stuffs me now; but the reality is no one gives a sweet poopie about you only what you do on the mat.

I bet you now wished you didn't give me permission to speak! Anyhow you can always say "What does she know? She's just a girl".........
Sincerely now, I hope I have helped. : :huh: :unsure:
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#29 User is offline   Theodore 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:13 AM

View Postgirl fighter, on Jun 29 2009, 08:16 PM, said:

:blush:

I'm a bit hesitant to comment as generally I thought your performance was good; and it's hard to see on the video; as you have corrected me (ie the tap), However I felt it lacked "spirit"; I wasn't completely convinced that you were trying to harm your tori.... But I think this of most people even some of the world champions. (the best comment I got back from doing a Gosh was "that was a gutsy performance; everyone just stopped to watch".......... ) I know the overall look is worth 10 points, but it could be the difference from a medal or not.

I would get a coach to look at the angles of Uk when tapping from arm locks etc ie just go with tori instead of fighting him. This is something I had to work on.

In the first of the stick attacks(Furi-age) I have to look up the names!; It's hard to tell from the video but I don't think tori really pushed his head back enough from under his chin. My first tori was the same.
In the second attack there is three attacks to uk on the head; (fist. diagonal strike then open hand push); I think your tori only did two. My partner is a fifth dan and brilliant; she still sometimes stuffs that bit up!

In the gun attacks I haven't seen the double tap and don't mind it (as you are looking for the wallet) I don't know why when Tori takes control of the weapons he holds them so high? I'll ask my head coach about that one... In the last of the gun attacks I like to see tori point the gun at Uke. (Nothing in the rules but its the overall look)

I didn't like Tori adjusting his gee so much it was distracting and I didn't feel its was needed his stance at the end looked as though he was angled (stomach sticking out); I think it may have been the camera angle or his injury.

Well done any way I know how hard it is to compete with injury, I did it soon after a full ACL knee reconstruction and still it stuffs me now; but the reality is no one gives a sweet poopie about you only what you do on the mat.

I bet you now wished you didn't give me permission to speak! Anyhow you can always say "What does she know? She's just a girl".........
Sincerely now, I hope I have helped. : :huh: :unsure:


Thank you for your comments.

With respect to pointing the gun to uke after the last gun technique, my tori did that the first time we did Goshin Jutsu in competition and the judge got all over him about it, that it was not in the Kata and should not be done.

Where you speak about three attacks to the head are to talking about the second stick techique (Furi-oroshi), if so, there are only two strikes to the head, the first with a back fist the second with the edge of the hand to the eyes, this seond connection is then kept and driven through to drop uke backwards.

Regards,
Theodore
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#30 User is offline   girl fighter 

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 06:14 AM

View PostTheodore, on Jun 30 2009, 02:13 AM, said:

Thank you for your comments.

With respect to pointing the gun to uke after the last gun technique, my tori did that the first time we did Goshin Jutsu in competition and the judge got all over him about it, that it was not in the Kata and should not be done.

Where you speak about three attacks to the head are to talking about the second stick techique (Furi-oroshi), if so, there are only two strikes to the head, the first with a back fist the second with the edge of the hand to the eyes, this seond connection is then kept and driven through to drop uke backwards.

Regards,
Theodore

Okay as for your first comment, I think that particular judge is a dick! after all the whole point of the exrcise is to disarm Uke and take control. I would like to know if there are any judges out there who have an opion on this matter.

Secondly,I am talking about Furi-oroshi. I agree with you totally however it is my understanding that after the second stike, Tori pushes uke hard on the forhead with an open hand so s/he falls down! From the change rules, it states; (Tori grabs the stick with his right hand and then stikes again in atemi with the side of the hand between Uke's eyes (kiai), then pushes backwards hard so that he falls down, pulling the stick out of Uke's hands.)
Reading this again and remembering what used to happen; I guess it is open to interpretation and you may infact be correct in stating it is two techniques with the second following through!

Does anyone else have a comment on this?
That would be right, I think I"m may be helping you and I'm the one who gets the help.............
Like i said before , I"m just a brown belt what the hell do I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <_<
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