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Efforts rewarded, welcome back Go-no-Kata Introduced as the 9th Kata of the Kodokan in Jan 2009 Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   sam 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 12:13 PM

For the first time after many decades, the Kodokan announced the 9th Kata as "Go-no-Kata" with a clear description of the lineage from Jigoro Kano->Nagaoka(Kito Ryu)->Fusataro Sakamoto(Tejin Shinyo Ryu)->Shoichiro Sato(Sosuishitsu Ryu)->Yoshiyuki Kuhara and his nephew Toshiyasu Ochiai in the Jan issue of JUDO 2009. Full details are explained by Daigo Sensei. And tomorrow evening there`ll be a Go-no-Kata lesson at the Kodokan.

I'm personally glad that Ochiai Sensei`s painstaking efforts for years in the past to preserve the Kata are now rewarded with the Kodokan`s recognition by Daigo Sensei.
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#2 User is offline   Mifune 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:11 PM

http://www.kodokan.o...shi/0901_j.html

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#3 User is offline   judo66 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:19 PM

View Postsam, on Jan 12 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

For the first time after many decades, the Kodokan announced the 9th Kata as "Go-no-Kata" with a clear description of the lineage from Jigoro Kano->Nagaoka(Kito Ryu)->Fusataro Sakamoto(Tejin Shinyo Ryu)->Shoichiro Sato(Sosuishitsu Ryu)->Yoshiyuki Kuhara and his nephew Toshiyasu Ochiai in the Jan issue of JUDO 2009. Full details are explained by Daigo Sensei. And tomorrow evening there`ll be a Go-no-Kata lesson at the Kodokan.

I'm personally glad that Ochiai Sensei`s painstaking efforts for years in the past to preserve the Kata are now rewarded with the Kodokan`s recognition by Daigo Sensei.


I'm not quite sure that most of the NGB will include this kata in their syllabus.
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#4 User is offline   Mifune 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 04:42 PM

Edit by Moderator 22.24hrs on 12 January 2008

Thanks to Mizuno, who's link to a film of a Go-no-Kata performance has been substituted (for copyright reasons) with the following alternative:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fLgwL9LqqUk
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#5 User is offline   Taigyo 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:25 PM

View Postjudo66, on Jan 12 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

I'm not quite sure that most of the NGB will include this kata in their syllabus.

Don't see why not.
I also heard that the Kodokan was thinking of dropping Seiryoku zenyo kokumin taiku no kata from the official list.
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#6 User is offline   Jonesy 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:01 PM

View Postsam, on Jan 12 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

For the first time after many decades, the Kodokan announced the 9th Kata as "Go-no-Kata" with a clear description of the lineage from Jigoro Kano->Nagaoka(Kito Ryu)->Fusataro Sakamoto(Tejin Shinyo Ryu)->Shoichiro Sato(Sosuishitsu Ryu)->Yoshiyuki Kuhara and his nephew Toshiyasu Ochiai in the Jan issue of JUDO 2009. Full details are explained by Daigo Sensei. And tomorrow evening there`ll be a Go-no-Kata lesson at the Kodokan.

I'm personally glad that Ochiai Sensei`s painstaking efforts for years in the past to preserve the Kata are now rewarded with the Kodokan`s recognition by Daigo Sensei.

This is excellent news and just reward for Ochiai-sensei's efforts in preserving this kata.

View Postjudo66, on Jan 12 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

I'm not quite sure that most of the NGB will include this kata in their syllabus.

I agree - the only Kodokan kata to feature in the BJA's syllabus here in the UK are the Nage-no-Kata and Katame-no-Kata. The Gonosen-no-Kata does feature, but that of course is not due to the Kodokan.

View PostTaigyo, on Jan 12 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Don't see why not.

An absence of suitably qualified and experienced sensei.

View PostTaigyo, on Jan 12 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

I also heard that the Kodokan was thinking of dropping Seiryoku zenyo kokumin taiku no kata from the official list.

Really - would you know why?
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#7 User is offline   medo 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:34 PM

View PostMifune, on Jan 12 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

Edit by Moderator 22.24hrs on 12 January 2008

Thanks to Mizuno, who's link to a film of a Go-no-Kata performance has been substituted (for copyright reasons) with the following alternative:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fLgwL9LqqUk



Ummm would make for a good warm up after a refreshment break ;wry)

How many official Kodokan katas are there now is it 9 or 10?
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#8 User is offline   Jonesy 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:44 PM

View Postmedo, on Jan 12 2009, 09:34 PM, said:

Ummm would make for a good warm up after a refreshment break ;wry)

How many official Kodokan katas are there now is it 9 or 10?

It should be 10, as follows:

1. Nage-no-kata - “Forms of throwing”
2. Katame-no-kata - “Forms of grappling or holding”
3. Kime-no-kata - “Forms of decisiveness”
4. Kodokan goshinjutsu - “Kodokan forms of self-defence”
5. Ju-no-kata - “Forms of gentleness & flexibility”
6. Itsutsu-no-kata - “The five forms”
7. Koshiki-no-kata - “The antique forms”
8. Sei-ryoku-zen’yō kokumin-taiiku - National physical education according to (the principle of) best use of energy”
9. Joshi (judo) goshinho - “Methods of self-defence for women”
10. Go-no-Kata - "Forms of Hardness/Force"
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#9 User is offline   judo66 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:45 PM

View PostTaigyo, on Jan 12 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Don't see why not.
I also heard that the Kodokan was thinking of dropping Seiryoku zenyo kokumin taiku no kata from the official list.


Why would they drop it? Was that ever requested for a rank? It is mostly an exercise that you can do by yourself.
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#10 User is offline   Hanon 

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 11:02 PM

View Postjudo66, on Jan 12 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

Why would they drop it? Was that ever requested for a rank? It is mostly an exercise that you can do by yourself.


Pardon? -_-
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#11 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:38 AM

Wow, wow, wow, hold your horses. I think that you guys may be reading way too much into this. There is no indication whatsoever of the Kodokan saying: "Um, OK, let's teach this again and put it in the syllabus or as requirement for promotions".

Really, the only thing the Kodokan has done is correct a single word. For years they had said that Kano had rejected go-no-kata. I had pointed out to Murata, that such was not true, and that people (= those involved in Kodokan publications) were misreading the Yuko-no-katsudo article where Kano literally said that although the kata needs revision, he leaves it up to you if you want to practise or not. I speculate that Daigo himself made this mistake; who else holds the responsibility for publications on kata; Abe-Ichiro and Osawa did not even know such an article existed. Murata did, but what do you expect him to do: publicaly say that the highest authority in the world in kata is wrong. I speculate that the mistake dates from around the time that the Kodokan started getting questions about this kata. Responses were probably made from memory. You have to realize that all this ancient publications have no proper index. So, unless you know where it is written, you have to go page per page through the 22,000 pages of Yuko-no-katsudo. After all, the immediate predecessors of Daigo in terms of kata authority, and who mentioned go-no-kata, such as Shin'ichi Oimatsu and Masao Koyasu never made this mistake. So, it must date from the last couple of years. Before, it was simply obsolete bay lack of intrest by Really, what has happened is that just the correct reading of this article has been established. The article does not say that the kata is not obsolete anymore. It simply recognizes its historic existence.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 13 January 2009 - 06:24 AM

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#12 User is offline   judo66 

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 01:54 AM

View PostHanon, on Jan 12 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Pardon? -_-


I really don't know if that has been requested for dan exams, i'm looking for an answer. I know it is divided in solo exercices and dual exercices, what I meant is you can practice the solo part by yourself if you wish to do so. I also know that it was recommended by Kano shihan so i'm curious to know the reason why it would be dropped.
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#13 User is offline   NBK 

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 05:49 AM

View Postsam, on Jan 12 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

For the first time after many decades, the Kodokan announced the 9th Kata as "Go-no-Kata" with a clear description of the lineage from Jigoro Kano->Nagaoka(Kito Ryu)->Fusataro Sakamoto(Tejin Shinyo Ryu)->Shoichiro Sato(Sosuishitsu Ryu)->Yoshiyuki Kuhara and his nephew Toshiyasu Ochiai in the Jan issue of JUDO 2009. Full details are explained by Daigo Sensei. And tomorrow evening there`ll be a Go-no-Kata lesson at the Kodokan.

I'm personally glad that Ochiai Sensei`s painstaking efforts for years in the past to preserve the Kata are now rewarded with the Kodokan`s recognition by Daigo Sensei.
I understand the lesson to be private, not a Kodokan lesson (a group gathered in a dojo studying.... whatever.....)


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#14 User is offline   NBK 

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:01 AM

View PostJonesy, on Jan 13 2009, 06:44 AM, said:

It should be 10, as follows:

1. Nage-no-kata - “Forms of throwing”
2. Katame-no-kata - “Forms of grappling or holding”
3. Kime-no-kata - “Forms of decisiveness”
4. Kodokan goshinjutsu - “Kodokan forms of self-defence”
5. Ju-no-kata - “Forms of gentleness & flexibility”
6. Itsutsu-no-kata - “The five forms”
7. Koshiki-no-kata - “The antique forms”
8. Sei-ryoku-zen’yō kokumin-taiiku - National physical education according to (the principle of) best use of energy”
9. Joshi (judo) goshinho - “Methods of self-defence for women”
10. Go-no-Kata - "Forms of Hardness/Force"

I think you'll find the Kodokan only recognizes 9, including Go-no-Kata. Joshi goshinho is not considered a stand alone kata, its status is something less, more like a subset of Kokumin Taiiku and Kime-no-Kata. Kime-shiki, etc., are also not recognized as kata (not that either those or Kokumin Taiiku are much in evidence there.)

FWIW, I think CK is right, this is not a dramatic shift. Daigo sensei is 4 articles into a series about the kata, and just wrote about Go-no-Kata this month. I understand there is still a lot of opposition to the Kodokan teaching Go-no-Kata; I guess there's no one on the dojo staff that really know it, which certainly doesn't help.

I can go in the corner of the dojo w/ a couple of buds and start dissecting Kodokan Goshinjutsu into some sort of goshinho, but that doesn't mean that it would be recognized as any other than some folks bouncing around on the mat, doing something or another. And it doesn't mean that people won't give us a very wide berth, too.

BTW, that's my dream, to resurrect the self-defense aspects of judo in the Kodokan. But I'm not holding my breath.


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#15 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:39 AM

View PostNBK, on Jan 13 2009, 03:01 PM, said:

I think you'll find the Kodokan only recognizes 9, including Go-no-Kata. Joshi goshinho is not considered a stand alone kata, its status is something less, more like a subset of Kokumin Taiiku and Kime-no-Kata. Kime-shiki, etc., are also not recognized as kata (not that either those or Kokumin Taiiku are much in evidence there.)


Could it be that you are mixing joshi-goshinho with kime-shiki ? Joshi goshinho is recognized as a separate kata, but usually omitted, simply because of historic reasons It is kime-shiki and ju-shiki which are not named anymore as separate kata. I have specifically asked this question at the Kodokan to Abe and Daigo, and goshinho IS recognized, but just omitted from lists, because Japan is a country inundated with careful relationships between people ...

I guess really that the Kodokan uses the fantastic definition (and not surprisingly in an inconsistent way), that the kata had to be made or be approved by Kano-himself. They made a single exception for goshinjutsu, but full committee worked on this for years. Goshinho was conceived in a somewhat less complicated way, and because of that ... 'forgotten'.
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