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Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku-no-Kata who teaches it? / where to learn this Kata Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Jihef 

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Post icon  Posted 19 November 2008 - 01:59 PM

*
Hello,
regarding the Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku-no-Kata, who teaches it?

Where could I (could we…) learn this Kata ?? ( in Europe, ideally…)

It seems that it would be a good Kata for solo practice… but are there any ( regular?? ) clinics or sensei who DO teach it ??

I would love to learn this, but I dont think a book, or two for that matter, would help…

Rei,

JF
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#2 User is offline   finarashi 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 03:38 PM

View Postjihef, on Nov 19 2008, 03:59 PM, said:

*
Hello,
regarding the Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku-no-Kata, who teaches it?

Where could I (could we…) learn this Kata ?? ( in Europe, ideally…)

It seems that it would be a good Kata for solo practice… but are there any ( regular?? ) clinics or sensei who DO teach it ??

I would love to learn this, but I dont think a book, or two for that matter, would help…

Rei,

JF

Rumor is that a very good book covering this and other kata will be out in couple of years.
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#3 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 01:54 AM

View Postjihef, on Nov 19 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

*
Hello,
regarding the Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku-no-Kata, who teaches it?

Where could I (could we…) learn this Kata ?? ( in Europe, ideally…)

It seems that it would be a good Kata for solo practice… but are there any ( regular?? ) clinics or sensei who DO teach it ??

I would love to learn this, but I dont think a book, or two for that matter, would help…

Rei,

JF


I teach it. Hire me. <_<
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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#4 User is offline   Jihef 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:01 AM

View PostCichorei Kano, on Nov 20 2008, 02:54 AM, said:

I teach it. Hire me. <_<


I did not know you were for hire. <_<

A clinic would be fine, but I have the feeling you might not want to publicize it…
PM'ing you, I wont even TRY, obviously…
So, how could I know, then ?? :huh:

Rei,
JF
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#5 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:22 AM

View Postjihef, on Nov 20 2008, 06:01 PM, said:

I did not know you were for hire. <_<

A clinic would be fine, but I have the feeling you might not want to publicize it…
PM'ing you, I wont even TRY, obviously…
So, how could I know, then ?? :huh:

Rei,
JF


Although I prefer my remuneration in a different form than most clinicians, I am available for clinics ... obviously. -_- In fact, I do not even charge for clinics, if people take care of my travel and lodging and make sure that dinner with a drop-dead gorgeous lady is arranged. -_-

Your question was about wanting to learn and wanting to be taught Sei-ryoku zen'yo kokumin taiiku. You did not say anything about publishing. I do not indeed tolerate neither pictures nor video. I can recommend other people who know this kata, and who can teach it and who do not object against pictures and video, if that is what you are after. Eiko Shepherd teaches, but of course, she does not speak French; I do. You can also ask the Kodokan directly, and invite Katsuko Umezu, the highest female ranked judo teacher in the world (with the exception of Keiko Fukuda). Your closest expert would be Miwako Le Bihan from France, who is originally Japanese.

There exist various books that contain the kata; most are old, some very old, and only present in Japanese. I believe though it is contained in Kotani's book in English which is not that difficult to find secondhand, although it is not exactly cheap.

There are a few videoclips available on the Internet, though none of them high quality.


This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 20 November 2008 - 11:34 AM

"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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#6 User is offline   Jihef 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 11:52 AM

View PostCichorei Kano, on Nov 20 2008, 12:22 PM, said:

Your question was about wanting to learn and wanting to be taught Sei-ryoku zen'yo kokumin taiiku. You did not say anything about publishing.

Indeed, I said you probably would not want to PUBLICIZE your giving a clinic…

( from wiktionary )
to publicize (third-person singular simple present publicizes, present participle publicizing, simple past and past participle publicized)

1. To make widely known to the public.



So, how do I know then ? ( did I mean ) :huh:

Rei,
JF
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#7 User is offline   amadus 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:05 PM

Concerning the video: I was under the impression that the first striking series in the kata were not separated, but done in groups of five...

This post has been edited by amadus: 20 November 2008 - 03:06 PM

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#8 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:41 PM

View Postamadus, on Nov 21 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

Concerning the video: I was under the impression that the first striking series in the kata were not separated, but done in groups of five...


The category of judo techniques called 'kata' only means that a pre-decided things will be done. That is where the comparison stops. You do Sei-ryoku zenyo exactly as you want. It is not ju-no-kata and not itsutsu-no-kata, but it is a exercise that is meant as physical education, with a large degree of freedom. Most typically, every movement is repeated a number of times, left and right before moving on to the next. You are free to increase that number of repetitions should you wish. The word 'kata' is not even part of the name, and thus it is even more free than a serious called 'ho' or method.
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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#9 User is offline   Taigyo 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:03 PM

So, if one undertakes to try this kata on their own, should you also try to apply the principles of good striking (a lot of which are the same as good Judo), such as the striking point (fist, knee, etc.) should arrive at the target first?
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#10 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:12 PM

View PostTaigyo, on Nov 21 2008, 03:03 AM, said:

So, if one undertakes to try this kata on their own, should you also try to apply the principles of good striking (a lot of which are the same as good Judo), such as the striking point (fist, knee, etc.) should arrive at the target first?


Yes, movements should be complete and spirited. Just imagine that your mother-in-law (or ex-wife, the one who ran with all your cash) is positioned right in front of you. -_-

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 20 November 2008 - 06:13 PM

"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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#11 User is offline   Kaji 

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:44 AM

View PostCichorei Kano, on Nov 21 2008, 01:41 AM, said:

The word 'kata' is not even part of the name, and thus it is even more free than a serious called 'ho' or method.

So is the level of freedom is partly indicated by the name of the kata?
Like this?

Nothing > "ho" > "kata"

What about "shiki"?
Or perhaps it's not worthwhile to look at this freedom thing for kata other than the ri-no-kata?
大智發於心,於心無所尋,成就一切義,無古亦無今。
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#12 User is offline   amadus 

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:57 PM

View PostCichorei Kano, on Nov 20 2008, 11:41 AM, said:

The category of judo techniques called 'kata' only means that a pre-decided things will be done. That is where the comparison stops. You do Sei-ryoku zenyo exactly as you want. It is not ju-no-kata and not itsutsu-no-kata, but it is a exercise that is meant as physical education, with a large degree of freedom. Most typically, every movement is repeated a number of times, left and right before moving on to the next. You are free to increase that number of repetitions should you wish. The word 'kata' is not even part of the name, and thus it is even more free than a serious called 'ho' or method.


OK. That makes sense. Thanks. This is something I've never heard before. I'd imagine that there is much variation then; is it allowable to do, say, the kicking techniques prior to the hand techniques?

Concerning "ho," how much freedom is allowed in practicing goshinho?

This post has been edited by amadus: 21 November 2008 - 01:59 PM

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#13 User is offline   amadus 

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:06 AM

I'm bumping this so someone will answer the last question I posted a while ago.

Also, is it acceptable to vary the practice of Sei-ryoku zenyo by modifying the nature of, say, the forward punch to an eye-gouge-type technique...or anything like that?
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#14 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:13 AM

View Postamadus, on Dec 24 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

I'm bumping this so someone will answer the last question I posted a while ago.

Also, is it acceptable to vary the practice of Sei-ryoku zenyo by modifying the nature of, say, the forward punch to an eye-gouge-type technique...or anything like that?


No. What you suggest is not judo. Judo is not intended to create grief bodily arm. If you change an exercise to include ey-gouging, then you deviate from the moral principles of judo. Similarly, you cannot in goshinjutsu, after you have taken the gun, use the gun to shoot your opponent for the head to teach him a lesson. If he is pulling a second gun, that is something else. You need to think in function of what judo is about. Shooting someone for the head does not aid in your moral development as a good person.
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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#15 User is offline   amadus 

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:17 AM

View PostCichorei Kano, on Dec 23 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

No. What you suggest is not judo. Judo is not intended to create grief bodily arm. If you change an exercise to include ey-gouging, then you deviate from the moral principles of judo. Similarly, you cannot in goshinjutsu, after you have taken the gun, use the gun to shoot your opponent for the head to teach him a lesson. If he is pulling a second gun, that is something else. You need to think in function of what judo is about. Shooting someone for the head does not aid in your moral development as a good person.


The only reason I ask is because of what Kotani does at about 1:10 in this clip...


This post has been edited by amadus: 24 December 2008 - 04:19 AM

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