Cichorei Kano, on Sep 26 2008, 07:55 PM, said:
It will take me a little bit longer ... sort of awaiting if the US is soon going to increase it dozens of Olympic and World Championship medals, before I am going to accept whatever "many top 'coaches in the USA" (I did not even know there were any) believe as the gospel regarding how judo needs to be performed or studied. The way I see it "those same folks" have a lot of things they should be doing which they are not doing if they want to realize their goals such as obtaining medals. "Those same folks" are also the ones 'Swanlaking' around tiptoeing the tatami in their blue gi and baseball caps.
And as to you believing "many fine players do benefit from kata", this needs correction to "every single judoist good or bad WILL benefit from kata training".
So, you had lots of injuries, very well, sorry to hear that, and you are suggesting now that those injuries would prevent you to do any kata but not shiai ? Why have a I hard time believing that. Unless you are in a wheel chair with your legs paralyzed and half your back in arthrodesis, I do not see how you would not be able to practice any of the kata. I appreciate that some people because of knee injuries can't sit on their knees and do 'cat-a-me-no-kata', and others because of back or neck injuries cannot do fall anymore, sure, but there is a lot to do that does not include falls. Ju-no-kata and go-no-kata do not include any falls. And if one's back is truly so bad that even the least bending is impossible, then there is still Sei-ryoku zenyo kokumin taiiku.
But irrespective of that ... why would you attempt to extrapolate your own private injury history to what everyone should be doing, in particular those (I assume most people) who have not had your specific injuries ?
I am also a bit confused by your statement in respond to Inferus' comment:
Inferus: "Go ask Yamashita-sensei if he thinks kata is not for shiai. At the peak of his competitive career he was studying Nage no kata and katame no kata." (...)
You: "As was I; I started with NNK in 1970 and we met in 1979. While he beat me in shiai, he might be able to be my JNK tori." (...)
Are you saying you fought Yamashita in competition in 1979 at his top ? And you want him to be your tori ? Yamashita is an 8th dan and past Olympic and multiple world champion. Don't you think there is some difference in level and experience between the two of you ?
Ouch CK, you seem a bit harsh here.
I repeat myself: Yes, I still do practice kata which I began in 1970. I do believe it can help all folks in Judo and it helped me. I do believe it is not given much credit/interest by those in the USA considered to be "good shiai coaches" a position to which I disagree.
As to interfus' comment, I only added while Yamashita practiced kata during his competitive days, I also did so. Thus underscoring my belief in kata's aid to shiai. I also was commenting that today DUE TO MY SIZE, SHAPE AND PREMENANT INJURY status, finding a tori for any kata involving lifting (I used JNK especially as my example) has been fruitless in my geographic area. I mentioned that a very large tori would likely be needed, I mentioned Geesink earlier and added Yamashita when reminded of his Kata practice. I shop in the section somewhere between fireplug and brick outhouse when I buy clothes. Spray paint would be cheaper. When I last check the Kata rules an engine hoist was not allowed.
Now to the comments directly directly at me. First, I am not the first to be seriously injured in shiai. I was and returned to competition. I have also been injured outside of Judo. These injuries have prevented me from kneeing, or sitting on the mat in certain positions; my ability to do ukemi has been greatly reduced, but I can still take certain types of falls enought to protect myself in randori. These miltiple injuries involve thoratic and lombar back including a fracture, neck, hands, knees (following one horrendous injury, the helicopter was called when they at first thought I had damaged the nuero-vascular bundle in addition to all the other damage), hip. I have a state disablity rating weather I want it or not. I am please to do what I can at the level I can. This SADLY does not include kata at a level which allows me to to be worthy of demonstration. I could and did so prior to my injuries. Every day I am thankful I have a lower left leg, can stand upright and have feeling thoroughout most of my extremites.
So, can you get hurt in shiai. Yes, can it affect you Kata? Yes. Does it happen to everyone? No, thank goodness, only to a small few.