JudoForum.com: Torite no Kata - Tokyo Metropolitan Police Agency Basic Judo - JudoForum.com

Jump to content

  • (9 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

Torite no Kata - Tokyo Metropolitan Police Agency Basic Judo A synopsis of a 'lost judo kata' - 1926 Tokyo police judo manu Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#13 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:28 PM

View Postsam, on Jun 3 2008, 05:05 PM, said:

.........
www.d1.dion.ne.jp/~asbc/book020-155.htm
no. 78100-01804
published by Jikeikai in 1926
Price 12000~12600 (about $114.-)
Keishicho Judo Kihon Toride no Kata
Seller: Kosho Art Center

I`m not going to buy it but it won`t stay long on the shelf. .......

Actually, sorry, I'm pretty sure I bought that one already. :rolleyes: They just haven't taken it off the website.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#14 User is offline   johan smits 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 558
  • Joined: 22-June 05

Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:37 PM

In the blink of an eye. Ya're fast I can tell.
(Okay so it was a bad day at the office).
I still have some ideas about how to get something like that started.
On different forums people keep telling that the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten (from memory) by Watanabe cannot be translated because it is: archaic, difficult,impossible.
All over the place I find pages and quotes from that book.

Me don't get it.
Maybe one day.

Best regards and happy landings,

Johan Smits
0

#15 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:56 PM

View Postjohan smits, on Jun 3 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

In the blink of an eye. Ya're fast I can tell.
(Okay so it was a bad day at the office).
I still have some ideas about how to get something like that started.
On different forums people keep telling that the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten (from memory) by Watanabe cannot be translated because it is: archaic, difficult,impossible.........


Actually I bought it some time ago, but some bookstore owners don't update their websites automatically. They might actually have another copy, but I really doubt it.

Translating something like that dictionary would be a real pain, but someone could, I'm sure.

You bring enough money, we're in business. ;wry)

This post has been edited by NBK: 03 June 2008 - 01:56 PM



柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#16 User is offline   johan smits 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 558
  • Joined: 22-June 05

Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:58 PM

The Daijiten is just an example. To get things started a smaller book would be a good idea. If things would work out well bigger projects could be undertaken.
Now such an undertaking would be a labour of love. Those willing to participate could each help according to their abilities.
I do have some specific ideas about such a thing. Maybe that is something for a new thread not in the kata section I mean.
I will make one later this evening. Gotta find something out about train connections first.

Happy landings,

Johan Smits
0

#17 User is offline   fireems343 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 552
  • Joined: 26-February 08

Post icon  Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:05 PM

View PostCichorei Kano, on May 28 2008, 05:00 AM, said:

Are there any "lost kata" in judo ? I don't think so. Although the very first 10-technique form of nage-no-kata or the first shobu-no-kata are not known, they are not really 'other' kata, but drafts, sketches to the later form. Is knowing the first draft of Beethoven's 5th different music ? Would it really enrich music or judo for most people ? Doubtful.

There is already a torite-like kata shown by Mifune on the Shingi Mifune DVD. These torite forms are not kata like people have come to understand in judo today. They are not 'ceremonial kata' but rather series of exercises that were created simply created as a mnemonic to remember the various different techniques. People like Tsukamoto-sensei or Hosogawa-sensei were known for their interest and skills in taiho-jutsu and torite. I believe that Mr. Hal Sharp in his Rising Sun Productions series published a DVD on Tsukamoto-sensei's techniques.

I have a number of these very old Japanese self-defense books, but unfortunately no access to them right now. Whether I have the specific one you mention, I do not know for sure, but likely.


are you really this smart or are you a computer generated responder????????? <_<
0

#18 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:36 AM

View PostNBK, on Jun 3 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

.........
Meanwhile, the judoka featured in the book are:
Yamashita Yoshitsugu, later 10dan
Yamaguchi Magosaku (I found a reference that he was 5dan judo instructor, Kunaisho [Imperial Household Agency], Tokyo Metropolitan Police, wrote a judo book in the mid-1950's)
Moriyama Kiyosuke
Kawano Yoshitaro (sp?)
and some guy whose name I can't figure out for the life of me
國未幸造

Anyone know these folks?

Digging in my library, the book of Yamaguchi Magosaku 山口孫作, published in 1956, is 柔道上達法 Jûdô Jôtatsu Hô - The Way to Improve (your) Jûdô.

In this book, he is cited as an 8dan jûdôka and 警視庁名譽師範 Keishichô Meiyô Shihan - jûdô master emeritus, if you would, of the Tokyo Metropolitan Police. I'll check some Keishichô refs later.

The judo techniques described therein seem unremarkable but there are some interesting chapters, including 'A Digression on Chinese kempo' as related to jûdô, some sort of digest of many famous jûdô matches, an overview of a range of old jujutsu styles, etc.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#19 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 13 June 2008 - 06:38 AM

View Postjohan smits, on Jun 4 2008, 02:58 AM, said:

The Daijiten is just an example. To get things started a smaller book would be a good idea. If things would work out well bigger projects could be undertaken.
Now such an undertaking would be a labour of love...........

I made a photocopy of the book today so I can scribble notes. It's only 80pp, and much of that photos.

Since for me with this book right now its more like than love, as I did so, I thought of an experiment by posting a serial, English, high-level synopsis of the book, with a few, culled low-res pix (including Yamashita in his topcoat, which is just hilarious to me). A chapter or technique every week or two, as time presents itself / I ride around on the subway and have some time to kill.

Would that be of interest? A decent, precise translation is more than I'm willing to undertake for now. Perhaps someday.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#20 User is offline   johan smits 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 558
  • Joined: 22-June 05

Posted 13 June 2008 - 08:25 AM

Would that be of interest? It would be marvelous!!!

:manoyes:

Oh yes.

You got mail.

Happy landings,

Johan Smits
0

#21 User is offline   finarashi 

  • Judo Forum Godan
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,301
  • Joined: 30-August 03

Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:36 PM

View PostNBK, on Jun 13 2008, 09:38 AM, said:

I made a photocopy of the book today so I can scribble notes. It's only 80pp, and much of that photos.

Since for me with this book right now its more like than love, as I did so, I thought of an experiment by posting a serial, English, high-level synopsis of the book, with a few, culled low-res pix (including Yamashita in his topcoat, which is just hilarious to me). A chapter or technique every week or two, as time presents itself / I ride around on the subway and have some time to kill.

Would that be of interest? A decent, precise translation is more than I'm willing to undertake for now. Perhaps someday.

Really great :manoyes:
0

#22 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 14 June 2008 - 09:27 PM

This is the beginning of a gross synopsis of the book under discussion. When time permits, I'll post some more.



******************

取手の形 - 警視庁柔道基本 Torite no kata – Keishicho Judo Kihon
Torite Kata – Tokyo Metropolitan Police Agency Basic Judo

警視庁警務部規畫課編集 – Edited by Tokyo Metropolitan Police Agency, Administrative Division, Planning Section


財団法人自警会發行 Jikeikai Foundation


Pg 1-2

Foreword

Budo is great for training mind and body. Through research, have developed a kata of the essential techniques of judo. The instructors that participated are Yamashita, Yamaguchi, Moriyama, Kawano, and Kunio (sp?) 國未. Such techniques are critical to the police in this day and age.

May 1926 (Taisho 15)

Ishii Tamotsu
Chief, Administrative Division

Pp3-4

Foreword

I, from the old days, believe that the essence of the Japan spirit is heightened through the dedicated practice of budo. From my responsibility and position as a police judo instructor for some 30 years, I believe this to be true. Gathered together the leading police judo instructors since Sep 1924, on the occasion of the budo kenshukai, after the Great Kanto Earthquake (NOTE: 1923) and with their support was able to develop the torite no kata.

Apr 1926
Yamashita Yoshitsugu
Judo shihan


Foreword

The police and budo have a long relationship. Training in budo gives patrolmen the correct spirit. This is true for both the soldier and policeman, and training in budo gives the proper warrior spirit.
三島誠也 Mishima Seiya (NOTE: later Governor of Nara Prefecture?)

Chapter 1
総説 Overview

Torite no kata is a practical application of judo kata. Judo kata include Nage, Katame, Kime, and Ju no kata. The name ‘torite no kata’ was applied to this practical application kata collection of judo techniques.

Idori / seated in seiza facing
Unarmed attack by uke
- Ryotedori
- Menate
- Yokouchi
Against tanto attack
- Tsukikomi
- Kirisage
Unarmed
- Yokoudedori (seiza side by side)
- Maeudedori (uke in seiza, tori approaches from front)
- Ushiroudedori (uke on hands and knees, tori takedown from rear)

Tachiau / standing
Unarmed
- Ryotedori
- Kataudedori
- Yokouchi
- Keage
- Ushirodori
Versus tanto attack
- Nanametsukisage
- Kirisage
- Tsukikomi
- Furiage
Tori armed w/ katana
- Tsukadori (uke seizes handle of tori's sheathed sword)

Hikitate (renkouhou) comealongs
- Eritoriudehijiki
- Hikitateudehijiki
- Sodetori
- Udejuji
- Kotedori
- Koyubidori (little finger comealong)
Chapter 2 正座と禮法  Seiza to Reihô Formal Seated and Bowing

#1 – 正座 Seiza (explained in detail)

#2 – 禮 Rei (explained in detail)

Chapter 3 取手の形 Torite no kata

#1 居捕 Idori - Seated techniques

1. Ryotedori – (NOTE: similar to kime no kata ryotedori at first) then, into wakigatame, but then….
Tori holds uke’s right arm in wakigatame while kneeling on his left knee at uke’s right side, facing the same way as uke. Then tori sits down to his left (NOTE: squats on his own left heel), driving uke’s right shoulder and face into the mat. Uke places his left knee on uke’s arm at the shoulder, then shifts his left knee to the mat, and both hands into overhand grip to press uke’s arm down, immobilizing him. Uke’s right arm is about 90degrees from his body. (NOTE: there are similar aikido arm-press immobilizations)

2. Menate – (NOTE: similar to kime no kata suriage) Uke strikes at tori’s face….. but finish like above.

...............

This post has been edited by NBK: 19 June 2008 - 03:50 PM



柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#23 User is offline   Jonesy 

  • Judo Forum Godan
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,351
  • Joined: 02-July 05

Posted 15 June 2008 - 09:02 AM

Thank you so much NBK - this will be an invaluable contribution.
Dr Llyr C Jones
0

#24 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 17 June 2008 - 02:34 PM

Not sure I can simply describe this one, here are a couple of pix.

3. Yokouchi (side blow, blow to the side [of the head])
• From seiza, while separated by over 90cm, uke raises on his toes, steps forward w/ right foot (while kneeling on left knee), strikes tori around his left ear with a hammerfist (palm up).
Attached Image

• Tori blocks blow: right hand (palm down) grasps uke’s right wrist from outside while left hand goes under uke’s arm to block at uke’s shoulder above armpit.
Attached Image

• Tori unbalances uke to his front by stepping back with his right foot with right knee up while rotating to his right on his left knee to move outside uke's outstretched arm.
Attached Image

• Using right hand on wrist, left hand on uke’s right shoulder, tori pulls uke facedown with hikiotoshi.
• Finish as above.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#25 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 19 June 2008 - 01:41 PM

(attacks w/ tanto)

4. 突込 Tsukikomi (straight thrust)
• Uke has a hidden tanto inside his gi, simultaneously pulls it and steps forward with his left foot while kneeling on right knee and thrusting at tori’s stomach.
• Tori steps back with his right foot while rotating his left knee, with right knee up, uses left hand to guide uke’s tanto thrust away, strikes uke stronly in the face with open right hand metsubushi.
Attached Image


• Tori takes uke’s right wrist (holding the tanto) with his right hand while reaching behind uke’s neck with his left hand to take uke’s right collar, and pulls uke into 腹固 haragatame
• Tori pulls uke forward on his face and mounts uke’s outstretched right arm elbow with his left knee, then kicks the tanto from uke’s hand with his right foot and kicks it away.

Attached Image

• Arm pin putting reverse tension on uke’s elbow.
• Finish as above.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#26 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:59 AM

No. 5 - Kirisage (切下 - cutting down)

• Uke, tori, seated in seiza facing one another.

• With his right hand, Uke pulls a knife hidden in the left breast of his gi, comes to kneeling position / raises knife overhead (edge facing forward/down, blade extending from thumb side of clenched fist), then cuts down on tori's head.

• Tori rises to knees / turns to his left / moves to his left front (i.e., to right outside of uke's cut as seen from uke) with his right knee up, while catching uke's downward slashing right forearm in the crook of his upturned right elbow. Tori reaches over uke's right arm with his own left arm, then crushes uke's right elbow with wakigatame.

• Uke shifts grip to grasp uke's right wrist with his right hand, grasp uke's right shoulder with his left hand, and slams uke forward face down (OK, some poetic license there....).

• Immobilize uke's right arm, kick knife away with right foot, finish as above.


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

#27 User is offline   NBK 

  • Just happy to be here....
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,239
  • Joined: 14-January 07

Posted 16 August 2008 - 04:29 AM

It's Saturday afternoon, all the dojos are closed, I'm bored with work and it's too early to open that bottle of wine in the frig, so here's another installment. This one is interesting.

NOTE: Starts off w/ a couple of sentences that note that this technique is unique in that tori initiates the action; uke is just sitting there, fat dumb and happy. Then, claims that this technique is not seen in any other ryuha, but I think it's close enough to a couple of koryu waza I've seen (think: ambush from side by side seiza) to disregard that.

⑥. 横腕捕 Yoko ude dori
Unique. Tori initiates action.

Both seated in seiza facing the same direction, tori to the right.

Tori inserts his left hand under uke's right armpit and gently grasps uke's right arm above the elbow near shoulder. Then, he lifts uke's right arm and takes uke's right wrist with his right hand, and pulling back with his right hand / pushing forward with his left hand, pivots uke forward and down, and pinions him to the floor, face / right shoulder / arm down.

Finish as above.

...'

Ouch.... :axesmiley:


柔能制剛 - 弱能制強
黄石公三略 上略
0

  • (9 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked