[Darshu]

I'm glad you are seeing such good results. Congratulations on your hard work.

The easy answer for improving your recovery is diet and rest. There are all sorts of supplements out there that will claim to help you, but I'm not sold on any of them. Making sure that you take in enough protein, blanace out your carbs and fats, drink plenty of water, and get enough sleep will be the most significant practices you can make. Massage and self myofacial release can also aid in the recovery process.

[RiverCity Physical Culture]

familiarize yourself with the foam roller, and a take a nap.

I've observed that 100% effort = 100% pain. However, 90% effort seems to result in 50% pain. Don't make every day a PR.

Nausea is just a side-benefit of high rates of metabolic work.

This post has been edited by RiverCity Physical Culture: 28 April 2008 - 03:48 PM

[peterM]

TM,

I would be interested to know what you are doing training wise during the week and precisely what sessions give rise to severe nausea.

I would normally expect the nausea to be the result of working too hard too quickly although may be you have the capacity to take yourself to the limit.

In any event I can’t see how you can continue to face training sessions on a long term basis when you know you are likely to be badly nauseous.

If you need to develop the anaerobic system then certainly you need to very work hard but I do not think that it requires that level of discomfort.

What is that you are training for that requires such a level of hardship AND if it is something that you think you need to endure, do you need to train that way for more than a short period?

[RiverCity Physical Culture]

nausea happens to the best.

[peterM]

TMarkoski made reference to severe nausea accompanying nearly every training session.
I do not see that as something that is necessary or to be encouraged in his situation. I am
more interested in reading about how this occurs than a throw away remark about
the supposed experience of the best.

[RiverCity Physical Culture]

Anything more than half-hearted sprints, or any significant volume, or any good resistance(sleds etc) will induce some nausea. Whether or not it is 'severe' is subjective.

Tmarkoski isn't asking whether or not he should seek medical attention, so I assume he thinks it's not dangerously severe.

One of the most potent fat loss 'benefits' of intervals is the inability to eat much for 2-3 hours afterwards.

[Cichorei Kano]

tmarkoski, on Apr 28 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

I've been on an extended business trip recently and to prepare for I started increasing my anaerobic interval training.

For the past month or so I have been concentrating running sprints and dead weight interval 'sprints'.

I want to thank all of the trainers for their advice on the forum regarding this.

Darshu, RiverCity Physical Culture, CK and others, Thank You.

I have been able to measure significant improvements in my aerobic fitness using the methods you have mentioned.
My standard 3 mile run can now be done at a significantly elevated pace.
My resting heart-rate is now usually somewhere between 56-60 bpm.
Not too shabby for a 46 year old fart.

It has taken me the better part of a year just to be at the point physically to be able to train this way.
Let me say, it is NOT easy to train this way.

The major drawback I have been running into is the severe nausea that seems to accompany almost every training session.
It also takes me significantly longer to recover from each training session than a typical aerobic workout.
It takes me back to the tortuous double and triple sessions for football back in high school.

Is there anything that can be done to alleviate this or is it just "par for the course"?
Are there any specific supplements or foods that can help?

Very impressive, and an excellent example for many of us.

All the advice I would give can be summarized in a single sentence: keep doing what you are doing.

The nausea you are experiencing is caused by acidosis, that is the plunge in blood pH, which in itself is caused by accumulation of H+ ions. Since the 1960s researchers have experiments with ways to counter this, the most obvious being ingestions of bicarbonates. But, bicarbonates really are the same drugs people take for stomach acid, so they screw up your stomach's acid secretion, and might make your mouth foam. In reality, you do not want to have the bicarbonates in your stomach, but in your blood. Bicarbonates exist in injectable form and are a known adjuvant treatment agent among EMTs to reverse certain cases of cardiac arrest. There is a danger to using such agents in a healthy person, and seriously, what you are having is completely normal. As you keep doing this, your body will respond as a training effect by adapting its enzyme synthesis and availability, but this can take some time. Diet or supplements are not going to affect this. The transfer from stomach or intestines to blood flow is simply not fast enough, and certainly not during exercise when the splanchnic blood circulation is importantly reduced.

You may find the following studies relevant:

Edge J, Bishop D, Goodman C. Effects of chronic NaHCO3 ingestion during interval training on changes to muscle buffer capacity, metabolism, and short-term endurance performance. J Appl Physiol. 101(3):918-25, 2006.

School of Human Movement and Exercise Science, The University of Western Australia, Perth, Australia.

This study determined the effects of altering the H(+) concentration during interval training, by ingesting NaHCO(3) (Alk-T) or a placebo (Pla-T), on changes in muscle buffer capacity (beta m), endurance performance, and muscle metabolites. Pre- and posttraining peak O(2) uptake (V(O2 peak)), lactate threshold (LT), and time to fatigue at 100% pretraining V(O2 peak) intensity were assessed in 16 recreationally active women. Subjects were matched on the LT, were randomly placed into the Alk-T (n = 8) or Pla-T (n = 8) groups, and performed 8 wk (3 days/wk) of six to twelve 2-min cycle intervals at 140-170% of their LT, ingesting NaHCO(3) or a placebo before each training session (work matched between groups). Both groups had improvements in beta m (19 vs. 9%; P < 0.05) and V(O2 peak) (22 vs. 17%; P < 0.05) after the training period, with no differences between groups. There was a significant correlation between pretraining beta m and percent change in beta m (r = -0.70, P < 0.05). There were greater improvements in both the LT (26 vs. 15%; P = 0.05) and time to fatigue (164 vs. 123%; P = 0.05) after Alk-T, compared with Pla-T. There were no changes to pre- or postexercise ATP, phosphocreatine, creatine, and intracellular lactate concentrations, or pH(i) after training. Our findings suggest that training intensity, rather than the accumulation of H(+) during training, may be more important to improvements in beta m. The group ingesting NaHCO(3) before each training session had larger improvements in the LT and endurance performance, possibly because of a reduced metabolic acidosis during training and a greater improvement in muscle oxidative capacity.
------------------


McKenna MJ, Heigenhauser GJ, McKelvie RS, MacDougall JD, Jones NL. Sprint training enhances ionic regulation during intense exercise in men. J. Physiol. 15;501 (Pt 3):687-702, 1997.

Department of Medicine, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. michaelmckenna@vut.edu.au

1. This study investigated the effects of 7 weeks of sprint training on changes in electrolyte concentrations and acid-base status in arterial and femoral venous blood, during and following maximal exercise for 30 s on an isokinetic cycle ergometer. 2. Six healthy males performed maximal exercise, before and after training. Blood samples were drawn simultaneously from brachial arterial and femoral venous catheters, at rest, during the final 10 s of exercise and during 10 min of recovery, and analysed for whole blood and plasma ions and acid-base variables. 3. Maximal exercise performance was enhanced after training, with a 13% increase in total work output and a 14% less decline in power output during maximal cycling. 4. The acute changes in plasma volume, ions and acid-base variables during maximal exercise were similar to previous observations. Sprint training did not influence the decline in plasma volume during or following maximal exercise. After training, maximal exercise was accompanied by lower arterial and femoral venous plasma [K+] and [Na+] across all measurement times (P < 0.05). Arterial plasma lactate concentration ([Lac-]) was greater (P < 0.05), but femoral venous plasma [Lac-] was unchanged by training. 5. Net release into, or uptake of ions from plasma passing through the exercising muscle was assessed by arteriovenous concentration differences, corrected for fluid movements. K+ release into plasma during exercise, and a small net K+ uptake from plasma 1 min post-exercise (P < 0.05), were unchanged by training. A net Na+ loss from plasma during exercise (P < 0.05) tended to be reduced after training (P < 0.06). Release of Lac- into plasma during and after exercise (P < 0.05) was unchanged by training. 6. Arterial and venous plasma strong ion difference ([SID]; [SID] = [Na+] + [K+] - [Lac-] - [Cl-]) were lower after training (mean differences) by 2.7 and 1.8 mmol l-1, respectively (P < 0.05). Arterial and femoral venous CO2 tensions and arterial plasma [HCO3-] were lower after training (mean differences) by 1.7 mmHg, 4.5 mmHg and 1.2 mmol l-1, respectively (P < 0.05), with arterial plasma [H+] being greater after training by 2.2 nmol l-1 (P < 0.05). 7. The acute changes in whole blood volume and ion concentrations during maximal exercise were similar to previous observations: Arterial and femoral whole blood [K+] and [Cl-] were increased, whilst [Na+] was lower, across all observation times after training (P < 0.05). 8. Net uptake or release of ions by exercising muscle was assessed by arteriovenous whole blood concentration differences, corrected for fluid movements. A net K+ uptake by muscle occurred at all times, including exercise, but this was not significantly different after training. An increased net Na+ uptake by muscle occurred during exercise (P < 0.05) with greater Na+ uptake after training (P < 0.05). Net muscle Lac- release and Cl- uptake occurred at all times (P < 0.05) and were unchanged by training. 9. Sprint training improved muscle ion regulation, associated with increased intense exercise performance, at the expense of a greater systemic acidosis. Increased muscle Na+ and K+ uptake by muscle during the final seconds of exercise after training are consistent with a greater activation of the muscle Na(+) - K+ pump, reduced cellular K+ loss and the observed lesser rate of fatigue. The greater plasma acidosis found after sprint training was caused by a lower arterial plasma [SID] due to lower plasma [K+] and [Na+], and higher plasma [Lac-].
--------------------------------


My personal suggestion is to end each anaerobic session with a nice aerobic warm-down, rather than abruptly go from anaerobic to nothing. The other thing is to drink large amounts of water or juice after training (large, but of course not excessive to the extent that hyponatremia would develop). Anaerobic training tends to stiffen up muscles afterwards, when vasoconstriction kicks in again and lots of waste products keep getting stuck in the muscles. You really want to get rid of them as much as possible before your next anaerobic session. Simple aerobic warm-down helps doing that too.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 01 May 2008 - 01:59 AM

[RiverCity Physical Culture]

as does contrast showers, stretching and massage.

[Hongou]

Hi,

I don't want to hijack tmarkoski's thread but I have a quick question regarding anaerobic interval training: how often can you do it, and does it replace aerobic training, or do you still do aerobic training to maintain a base level of fitness? Thanks.

[Cichorei Kano]

Hongou, on Apr 30 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

Hi,

I don't want to hijack tmarkoski's thread but I have a quick question regarding anaerobic interval training: how often can you do it, and does it replace aerobic training, or do you still do aerobic training to maintain a base level of fitness? Thanks.

Anaerobic training does not replace aerobic training. Some cardiophysiologic and metabolic parameters will benefit from both similarly, others will not. Any physical training, whether aerobic, or anaerobic or resistance, is better than nothing. Certain 'aerobic' parameters will also improve with anaerobic training, such as VO2max; others, such erythropoietin synthesis, hematocrit. Also, aerobic training will allow you to depend longer in the aerobic area before the anaerobic threshold occurs. You are even with intense anaerobic training going to extend your anaerobic capacity with seconds, not minutes, but aerobic training will indeed help you increase your aerobic capacity with many minutes. This does not make one better than the other, at least not on absolute terms; sometimes it may, with specific reference to a specific sports. A good judoist needs both, thus needs to train both.

You may find the following study interesting:


Harmer AR, McKenna MJ, Sutton JR, Snow RJ, Ruell PA, Booth J, Thompson MW, Mackay NA, Stathis CG, Crameri RM, Carey MF, Eager DM.Skeletal muscle metabolic and ionic adaptations during intense exercise following sprint training in humans. J Appl Physiol. 89(5):1793-803, 2000.


School of Exercise and Sport Science, The University of Sydney, Lidcombe, 1825.

The effects of sprint training on muscle metabolism and ion regulation during intense exercise remain controversial. We employed a rigorous methodological approach, contrasting these responses during exercise to exhaustion and during identical work before and after training. Seven untrained men undertook 7 wk of sprint training. Subjects cycled to exhaustion at 130% pretraining peak oxygen uptake before (PreExh) and after training (PostExh), as well as performing another posttraining test identical to PreExh (PostMatch). Biopsies were taken at rest and immediately postexercise. After training in PostMatch, muscle and plasma lactate (Lac(-)) and H(+) concentrations, anaerobic ATP production rate, glycogen and ATP degradation, IMP accumulation, and peak plasma K(+) and norepinephrine concentrations were reduced (P<0.05). In PostExh, time to exhaustion was 21% greater than PreExh (P<0.001); however, muscle Lac(-) accumulation was unchanged; muscle H(+) concentration, ATP degradation, IMP accumulation, and anaerobic ATP production rate were reduced; and plasma Lac(-), norepinephrine, and H(+) concentrations were higher (P<0.05). Sprint training resulted in reduced anaerobic ATP generation during intense exercise, suggesting that aerobic metabolism was enhanced, which may allow increased time to fatigue.

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 01 May 2008 - 01:53 AM

[Hongou]

Thank you, CK.