JudoForum.com: Kata Resources on the Internet - JudoForum.com

Jump to content

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Kata Resources on the Internet Consolidated List Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#16 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

  • Judo Forum Hachidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 19,252
  • Joined: 29-January 06

Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:27 PM

View PostKelly, on Jun 12 2007, 07:03 AM, said:

Hanon Sensei - I am currently studying Ju No Kata (and others) and would love love love any descriptions comments or details that you care to make.

And if there is a DVD of you and PTNippon Sensei doing this or any other kata, I will be first in line to buy it!

best regards,
Kelly


Great, may I recommend you also buy the ... accompanying book (mine) ? -_-

This post has been edited by Cichorei Kano: 11 June 2007 - 11:24 PM

"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
0

#17 User is offline   Hanon 

  • Judo Forum Shichidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 7,667
  • Joined: 19-February 07

Posted 11 June 2007 - 11:15 PM

View PostKelly, on Jun 11 2007, 11:03 PM, said:

Hanon Sensei - I am currently studying Ju No Kata (and others) and would love love love any descriptions comments or details that you care to make.

And if there is a DVD of you and PTNippon Sensei doing this or any other kata, I will be first in line to buy it!

best regards,
Kelly


Okay, I will do my best.

Some of the following comments are going to read as if I am crazy. Accept I AM crazy BUT that what I write regarding this kata may not be! :o

The kata is about the demonstration of Ju.
Never perform this kata 'to the public'. This kata is for tori and uke. (as they ALL are)
Both tori and uke must learn how and when to breath, breath control is a major element in this kata.
I write that you need to think about circles. When we see a play ground merry-go-round on the move the movement is circular and never jerky or in 'sections'.
Once an attack has began it must flow and each attack is 'real/live' even though performed at a less realistic speed.
Maintain a constant speed through out the kata.
Now some of the waza are symbolic of greater things than we see (as a spectator). eg, Tsuki age, when uke steps back and stretches his arm backward he opens his hand then makes a fist. Why does uke open his hand? Uke opens his hand to collect all the power he can in his palm so when he attacks his tori his hand/body is so full of energy it should show.
That stetching open of the hand is symbolic of collecting all the power in the universe into one small, but significant, palm of the hand. Take your mind down to the hand and truly stretch that hand open and then close it feeling the power you have 'caught' within your palm and then attack uke with all the concentration and inner passion you may muster. Not with speed but with inner strengh and great detrmination. when you start to rise your fist upward imagine taking toris head of his shoulders. concentrated power in the fist comming from the collection of earthly force 'caught' at the opening part of the waza.

You still with me?

Tori needs to move his butt to avoid such power or the contact would be hard. Uke should not stop and tori should guide the force in ukes hand ever upward nullifying-neutralizing the force of the waza.
Now uke takes a second bite and comes again, real force, controlled force and determination, alive and deadly but controlled and slow but in harmony and not in jerks. Tori after the second attack takes over completely and ends the scenario. (with a real alive painful waza)

Uchi oroshi. This felt so stupid at first but is so wonderful IF you can make it work and understand what uke is doing. Here goes.
Uke stands in front of tori and begins to move his right arm out and in a circular movement takes his hand upward again opening his palm. In this move it seems pointless as no one in a 'real' attack would do this? So why are we? Again its a physical description of an aesthetical act. Uke is stretching his palm open to again collect all the power he can and focusing that power in his hand he then attacks tori. Should you 'just' make the movement without the breathing and inner collection of strengh the movement will be just a useless and pointless act. Now, if you truly open your palm up and then collect that force as you make your circular move to attack tori this waza will take on life, it will show that you have concentrated all your energy and earthly force into a deadly weapon, that being your fist.

In these attacks it is vital for uke to breath in collecting all the power he can. On the attacking 'stroke' uke should breath out from the hara.
Now about the breathing. Think opera, yessss I said opera. An opera singer HAS to fill the theatre from front to back with their voice. This is achieved by using the diaphragm and using it as a weapon. In your case you must relax your chest and hara and fill FROM THE BASE OF YOUR SOCKS your lungs with air. Then as you attack you slowley breath out and with that breathing out you start to tense your hara and make the force for the waza come from your toes up your legs and then reinforced 100 fold by your hara you make the attack...................Small movements but so full of energy and power.

In the above two waza when you open your hand your fingers should stretch so much they hurt you, the ends of your fingers should tingle alive with the flow of blood and power from your hara.

This kata is so alive and so full of energy and movement, yet so controlled and dynamic. Its the forces of the human body at work in micro physical moves yet with macro intention and feeling!!!!

In general, make this kata a kata of real attack and defence.
If tori does not move he should and must be hit, again, when tori attacks uke uke must move his butt.

Co opertate with each other yet do not move unless you are moved after the initial attack. THIS IS VITAL.

Learn to breath. learn how and when to breath in then out. never hold your breath breathing must be in sync with the movements.

Don't tense the body or mind. At first you will need to think what you are doing. After some few years and many thousands of performances later you could perform this kata with your eyes closed and you feel-see in your mind what is happening. The degree of concentratin and conscious level shows in this kata more than in any other. Only after many many years of work will you be able to maintain alertness YET with peace and calmness of mind. :mellow:

You will know when you have this kata 'under your belt', the dojo could burn down yet you would not know as you are inside this physical story you are playing out and you are lost in the act yet while lost you are awake and alert and at perfect peace with your own mind and body, with that of your parntners and the world in general. Realy is some feaky stuff this Ju no kata. Much much better than drugs :hap:

Need some more. I very much doubt you will ever ask me again :P

Final word. All you need to know about judo is in the ju no kata ;wry)

Mike




View PostCichorei Kano, on Jun 11 2007, 11:27 PM, said:

Great, may I recommend you also by the ... accompanying book (mine) ? -_-


A picture paints a thousand words. Our ju no kata will be an encyclopedia in motion!!! Haaaaaaa No need for any more books ever again.............. :lol:

Gotcha :P

Mike :manoyes:

This post has been edited by Hanon: 12 June 2007 - 12:16 AM

0

#18 User is offline   Cichorei Kano 

  • Judo Forum Hachidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 19,252
  • Joined: 29-January 06

Posted 11 June 2007 - 11:55 PM

View PostHanon, on Jun 12 2007, 08:15 AM, said:

Okay, I will do my best.

Some of the following comments are going to read as if I am crazy. Accept I AM crazy BUT that what I write regarding this kata may not be! :o

The kata is about the demonstration of Ju.
Never perform this kata 'to the public'. This kata is for tori and uke. (as they ALL are)
Both tori and uke must learn how and when to breath, breath control is a major element in this kata.
I write that you need to think about circles. When we see a play ground merry-go-round on the move the movement is circular and never jerky or in 'sections'.
Once an attack has began it must flow and each attack is 'real/live' even though performed at a less realistic speed.
Maintain a constant speed through out the kata.
Now some of the waza are symbolic of greater things than we see (as a spectator). eg, Tsuki age, when uke steps back and stretches his arm backward he opens his hand then makes a fist. Why does uke open his hand? Uke opens his hand to collect all the power he can in his palm so when he attacks his tori his hand/body is so full of energy it should show.
That stetching open of the hand is symbolic of collecting all the power in the universe into one small, but significant, palm of the hand. Take your mind down to the hand and truly stretch that hand open and then close it feeling the power you have 'caught' within your palm and then attack uke with all the concentration and inner passion you may muster. Not with speed but with inner strengh and great detrmination. when you start to rise your fist upward imagine taking toris head of his shoulders. concentrated power in the fist comming from the collection of earthly force 'caught' at the opening part of the waza.

You still with me?

Tori needs to move his butt to avoid such power or the contact would be hard. Uke should not stop and tori should guide the force in ukes hand ever upward nullifying-neutralizing the force of the waza.
Now uke takes a second bite and comes again, real force, controlled force and determination, alive and deadly but controlled and slow but in harmony and not in jerks. Tori after the second attack takes over completely and ends the scenario. (with a real alive painful waza)

Uchi oroshi. This felt so stupid at first but is so wonderful IF you can make it work and understand what uke is doing. Here goes.
Uke stands in front of tori and begins to move his right arm out and in a circular movement takes his hand upward again opening his palm. In this move it seems pointless as no one in a 'real' attack would do this? So why are we? Again its a physical description of an aesthetical act. Uke is stretching his palm open to again collect all the power he can and focusing that power in his hand he then attacks tori. Should you 'just' make the movement without the breathing and inner collection of strengh the movement will be just a useless and pointless act. Now, if you truly open your palm up and then collect that force as you make your circular move to attack tori this waza will take on life, it will show that you have concentrated all your energy and earthly force into a deadly weapon, that being your fist.

In these attacks it is vital for uke to breath in collecting all the power he can. On the attacking 'stroke' uke should breath out from the hara.
Now about the breathing. Think opera, yessss I said opera. An opera singer HAS to fill the theatre from front to back with their voice. This is achieved by using the diaphragm and using it as a weapon. In your case you must relax your chest and hara and fill FROM THE BASE OF YOUR SOCKS your lungs with air. Then as you attack you slowley breath out and with that breathing out you start to tense your hara and make the force for the waza come from your toes up your legs and then reinforced 100 fold by your hara you make the attack...................Small movements but so full of energy and power.

In the above two waza when you open your hand your fingers should stretch so much they hurt you, the ends of your fingers should tingle alive with the flow of blood and power from your hara.

This kata is so alive and so full of energy and movement, yet so controlled and dynamic. Its the forces of the human body at work in micro physical moves yet with macro intention and feeling!!!!

In general, make this kata a kata of real attack and defence.
If tori does not move he should and must be hit, again, when tori attacks uke uke must move his butt.

Co opertate with each other yet do not move unless you are moved after the initial attack. THIS IS VITAL.

Learn to breath. learn how and when to breath in then out. never hold your breath breathing must be in sync with the movements.

Don't tense the body or mind. At first you will need to think what you are doing. After some few years and many thousands of performances later you could perform this kata with your eyes closed and you feel-see in your mind what is happening. The degree of concentratin and conscious level shows in this kata more than in any other. Only after many many years of work will you be able to maintain alertness YET with peace and calmness of mind. :mellow:

You will know when you have this kata 'under your belt', the dojo could burn down yet you would not know as you are inside this pysical story you are playing out and you are lost in the act yet while lost you are awake and alert and at perfect peace with your own mind and body, with that of your parntners and the world in general. Realy is some feaky stuff this Ju no kata. Much much better than drugs :hap:

Need some more. I very much doubt you will ever ask me again :P

Final word. All you need to know about judo is in the ju no kata ;wry)

Mike


Hanon-sensei, you do realize that you have just given Kelly something to spend the next 20 years working on, right ? I look forward to reading her answer in June 2027. :sad(
"The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
"Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
"I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
0

#19 User is offline   Francois 

  • Judo Forum Rokudan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 6,139
  • Joined: 12-February 04

Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:04 AM

It's flow, be one with your tori or uke, be filled with the Yawara spirit.
"The arts of peace and the arts of war are like two wheels of a cart which, lacking one, will have difficulty in standing."�Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623)

"In battle, if you you make your opponent flinch, you have already won." --- Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
0

#20 User is offline   Hanon 

  • Judo Forum Shichidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 7,667
  • Joined: 19-February 07

Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:13 AM

View Postptnippon, on Jun 12 2007, 01:04 AM, said:

It's flow, be one with your tori or uke, be filled with the Yawara spirit.



I didnt know you knew Flow? Nice girl, lives at the back of the grocery store on 5th street.

Sorry, I have the devil in me this evening? :rolleyes:

View PostCichorei Kano, on Jun 12 2007, 12:55 AM, said:

Hanon-sensei, you do realize that you have just given Kelly something to spend the next 20 years working on, right ? I look forward to reading her answer in June 2027. :sad(


Oh dear? Upppppppps :rolleyes:

Hang on, I have just read Kellys bio' and she is yondan and from Canada so she is a bright lass. No problems.

This post has been edited by Hanon: 12 June 2007 - 12:18 AM

0

#21 User is offline   JFTW 

  • Judo Forum Nidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 966
  • Joined: 03-August 05

Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:41 AM

View PostJonesy, on Jun 9 2007, 04:33 PM, said:

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=
Looks like Hajime Isogai, 10 Dan.


Can any one confirm the identity of tori and uke in this vid? Or the origin of this video?
0

#22 User is offline   tis 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 405
  • Joined: 04-May 06

Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:16 AM

View PostHanon, on Jun 11 2007, 11:15 PM, said:

Okay, I will do my best.

Some of the following comments are going to read .......
........
I very much doubt you will ever ask me again
Final word. All you need to know about judo is in the ju no kata ;wry)

Mike

Dear Hanon-sensei,

Thanks for your excellent post.
I will be very much grateful if you let us know more. It is quite difficult to obtain this sort of details.
May I ask you when you intend to release that DVD?
0

#23 User is offline   Hanon 

  • Judo Forum Shichidan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 7,667
  • Joined: 19-February 07

Posted 12 June 2007 - 08:47 AM

View Posttis, on Jun 12 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

Dear Hanon-sensei,

Thanks for your excellent post.
I will be very much grateful if you let us know more. It is quite difficult to obtain this sort of details.
May I ask you when you intend to release that DVD?


The said DVD should be available just prior to the release of CKSenseis book.

Do you realy want more info on Ju no kata or are you just testing to see how crazy I am? I will write more about the kata should you realy desire it, I fear it may scare a lot away though! :rolleyes:

Mike
0

#24 User is offline   tis 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 405
  • Joined: 04-May 06

Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:37 AM

View PostHanon, on Jun 12 2007, 08:47 AM, said:

The said DVD should be available just prior to the release of CKSenseis book.

Do you realy want more info on Ju no kata or are you just testing to see how crazy I am? I will write more about the kata should you realy desire it, I fear it may scare a lot away though! :rolleyes:

Mike

Dear Hanon-sensei,

Thanks for your reply.
I would be really delighted if you could write more about Ju-no-kata and this humble request is meant in all seriousness. Any explanation of any kata-movement helps to understand the purpose of kata better. I am therefore very much grateful for any detail particularly from less practiced kata.
I am looking forward to ordering your DVD soon.
0

#25 User is offline   Rei-boot 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 548
  • Joined: 25-October 06

Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:04 PM

Hi Jonesy,

Thanks for putting this together.

I don't wish to be a pest but the following link isn't working?

8. Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku http://video.google....219933375&hl=es


Regards

Rei-boot
"We are the heirs of our own actions" - The Buddha
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig" - NBK
"Never wrestle with a pig; the pig loves it and you just get covered in s.h.i.t" - MTripp
0

#26 User is offline   kanojujitsu 

  • Judo Forum Godan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 3,144
  • Joined: 20-August 05

Posted 12 June 2007 - 12:16 PM

View PostRei-boot, on Jun 12 2007, 12:04 PM, said:

Hi Jonesy,

Thanks for putting this together.

I don't wish to be a pest but the following link isn't working?

8. Seiryoku-Zen'yo Kokumin-Taiiku http://video.google....219933375&hl=es
Regards

Rei-boot


Your going to have to copy the name and and then go t othe web site and paste it on and do a search and it will come up


One comment, and this, we also see at our club.

Why is it that kids around the age as on this video, they look like 15 to 16 years old, have this lethargic Judo attitude.
I mean thay are practcing and thay look like they are half DEAD, Take a look at the video and they are just going through the motions and not giving their best.
I know just getting them to actually do Kata is a feat in itself, but come on get some adreanline please!!
0

#27 User is offline   Inferus 

  • Judo Sponge
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 2,880
  • Joined: 02-February 06

Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:32 PM

It's the age they're at, probably the hormone changes in their bodies causing it? CK-sensei will probably have a better answer with him being medically inclined :)
0

#28 User is offline   Kelly 

  • Judo Forum Ikkyu
  • Icon
  • Group: Validating
  • Posts: 499
  • Joined: 17-December 04

Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:43 PM

View PostHanon, on Jun 12 2007, 12:13 AM, said:

I didnt know you knew Flow? Nice girl, lives at the back of the grocery store on 5th street.

Sorry, I have the devil in me this evening? :rolleyes:
Oh dear? Upppppppps :rolleyes:

Hang on, I have just read Kellys bio' and she is yondan and from Canada so she is a bright lass. No problems.


Hanon Sensei, first thank you for your excellent descriptions of these two techniques from Ju No Kata. Rather than scaring me away, they instead make me want to work harder. Twenty years worth? Well, every time I do any kata, I find new things, new insights, new details. I expect I'll work my whole life on these things and never get them as good as I want them to be.....

I'm going to ask a huge imposition - you have written excellent descriptions on two of the techniques (well, the first part of uchi oroshi anyway ;wry) )...could I impose on...the remaining thirteen? Any comments you have are gratefully received and appreciated.

And, some sad news. I'm afraid I'm not a "bright lass" - I also have a "Frances/Francis" thing going on with my name. Ask Heiko - I just competed against him and Jeff in the Pan Ams....

CK Sensei - happy to buy your book as and when it is published..... :o

regards,
Kelly
0

#29 User is offline   Francois 

  • Judo Forum Rokudan
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 6,139
  • Joined: 12-February 04

Posted 12 June 2007 - 02:59 PM

View Postkanojujitsu, on Jun 12 2007, 05:16 AM, said:

Your going to have to copy the name and and then go t othe web site and paste it on and do a search and it will come up
One comment, and this, we also see at our club.

Why is it that kids around the age as on this video, they look like 15 to 16 years old, have this lethargic Judo attitude.
I mean thay are practcing and thay look like they are half DEAD, Take a look at the video and they are just going through the motions and not giving their best.
I know just getting them to actually do Kata is a feat in itself, but come on get some adreanline please!!

link:
http://video.google....+Kokumin-Taiiku
"The arts of peace and the arts of war are like two wheels of a cart which, lacking one, will have difficulty in standing."�Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623)

"In battle, if you you make your opponent flinch, you have already won." --- Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
0

#30 User is offline   heikojr 

  • KROM
  • Icon
  • Group: Special Members
  • Posts: 572
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 12 June 2007 - 03:00 PM

View PostKelly, on Jun 12 2007, 10:43 AM, said:


And, some sad news. I'm afraid I'm not a "bright lass" - I also have a "Frances/Francis" thing going on with my name. Ask Heiko - I just competed against him and Jeff in the Pan Ams....



Yes, i did get quite a laugh out of this thread when i read it this morning! Kelly and his kata partner, Gord, competed at the Pan-Ams against Jeff and i --- in the MENS DIVISION!

I'm sure it's an honost mistake.

heikojr
"Human life is truly a short affair. It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like." Yamamoto Tsunetomo
0

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic