[Johano]

Very interesting subjects. Let's try and see this logically.
IF aikido would be completely (or almost comp.) useless, then why do all these people around the world invest their time in such a martial art?
First of all, I do realise that when one sees Aikido, it seems choreographed and it seems highly ineffective.
But everyone who says that Aikido is useless, is not only insulting O-sensei Ueshiba, but also O-sensei Jigoro. Because, as far as I know, O-sensei Jigoro Kano had much respect for O-sensei Ueshiba Morihei for developing such a noble and effective art.

If Aikido was not effective, then why was O-sensei Ueshiba asked to train the Japanese military troops and the Tokyo police? Just to give you an example, they too did not believe him, and the military esquadron he had to teach dared him to a fight. Him, against the entire squadron. Do I need to mention who "won" this fight?

If so highly ineffective, you have never seen a match of Aikido (yes, there is an Aikido-style that teaches competition: Tomiki Aikido, a student of O-sensei Ueshiba). If so highly ineffective, you must never 've seen a randori fight between a karateka and an aikido. True, Aikido takes more time for a budoka to master many of it's techniques, because they are indeed so precise. And Aikido is not just a training in techniques, but it is, for what I have read (I am not an Aikidoka myself), a mental journey.

In my native tongue, we have three words for a "martial art", and although they've got the same translation in English, they have a slightly different meaning in Dutch.

The first is "een gevechtssport", which means literally "a fighting sport". In this category, one would find Karatedo, Judo and Taekwondo
Why? Because these sports are primarely based on competition. There is almost no club (not that I can find) that doesn't try to motivate their students into competition, and thus these students learn to attack, to fight. Attack is important within these sports.

The second is "een verdedigingssport", which means literally "a defense sport". Here we can find JuJutsudo, Tai-Jutsudo, ...
Why? Because these sports are not primarely based on competition (and thus attack) but on defense, and how to survive IF attackED.

The third one, and last one is "krijgskunst", which means "martial art". Here we find all traditional arts, such as Aikikai Aikido, Ninjutsu, ...
Why? Because in most of these arts, not only the defense is important, but also the mental condition, the mental journey, the spiritual journey. If you're in a club where this is not important, you need to train elsewhere.

So is Aikido ineffective? I doubt it.
Is Judo effective? Sure.
What is not effective? Sticking out your tongue and telling you'll tell your mum.

It is USELESS to discuss what is effective and what is not. Every martial arts has something of what an individual might think "Well, that's useless". I have that with Judo, and with Aikido and Karatedo. The important thing is, is that we learn as much as we can, for the rest of our lives, and develop our one "free-style" when it comes to self-defense instead of working and thinking within boundaries.

See it like this, when I can speak French, and when I've learned some Latin, I could probably read an Italian text (since these are all Romance languages) and understand some of the Italian things that Italians tend to say. But if on the other hand I learn Spanish as well, I'd would make it easier for me to read, understand and speak Italian if needed. And if I profound my Latin knowledge and I learn Portuguese and Romanian, and Sicilian, and Rheato-Romanic, well then, I suppose my troubles of understanding and interpreting Italian will get smaller and eventually dissapear. That would've taken more time if I had only learnt Latin.

So when in a dangerous situation, when I know Karatedo, Judo, Aikido, Tai-Jutsudo, Jujutsudo, Taekwondo, Tai-chi, Wushu, ... I will be able to react, interpret and understand such a situation much faster than if I had known only one of these arts.

Let's keep on learning.

Johano

[yoseikan]

Tim Neal, on Aug 26 2007, 08:06 AM, said:

All Japanese police have to practice Judo and Kendo,never met any who practice Aikido.

When I lived there they certainly practised Aikido and yes, Judo and Kendo. I was there to meet policemen! It is, however, mostly the Tokyo police, there are many references available if you google it. JapanZone even mentions that the Japanese riot police practice at the Yoshinkan Dojo in Tokyo. Interestingly this article also makes mention of Aikido being more "physical" than he was used to.


Johano, I don't think even the most ardent anti-Aikido lobby here is trying to say that Aikido is absolutely useless - after all the art has its roots firmly in other martial arts.

I was not aware that O-sensei Ueshiba had ever taken on a military squadron, but I did see an interesting MMA in York where combatants were asked to face daito, the Aikidoka had no problem. They were asked to swap to bokken before the TKD guys would stand up - they did OK but it wasn't exactly the confidence we were hoping for

The good people here are simply trying to compare the effectiveness of each martial art in a 'street situation'. I can't comment about the effectiveness of another martial art because I don't have the knowledge or experience in anything other than Yoseikan Budo. I am content that, if I am ever attacked, my attackers will be defeated. They are content that, if they are attacked, their attackers will be defeated. After that, all that is left is slagging off each others art

This post has been edited by yoseikan: 27 August 2007 - 09:53 AM